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New topics | » Memorial to Wolseley![W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Sep 01, 2024 8:47 pm by John Young » On this day 28th August, 1879![W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Aug 28, 2024 10:37 am by John Young » Alfred Ducat - N.N.C. Help with plotting his career![W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Mon Aug 26, 2024 1:34 pm by Rory Reynolds » Zulu powder horn![W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Fri Aug 23, 2024 5:22 pm by Rob D » Troop Despatch ![W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Aug 22, 2024 12:18 am by Eddie » Who’s who in this photo?![W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Tue Aug 20, 2024 3:53 am by Danny1960 » Hill of the Sphinx for sale open to offers![W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sat Aug 17, 2024 6:44 pm by ciroferrara » Information help please ![W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Aug 15, 2024 7:40 pm by Roobie257 » amaKwenke amabutho![W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Aug 15, 2024 6:54 pm by Julian Whybra |
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| | W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… | |
| | Author | Message |
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John Young
![John Young](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/1461-56.jpg)
Posts : 3295 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
![W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Wed Jul 20, 2022 11:45 pm | |
| I recently purchased a copy of W. B. Bartlett’s Hlobane and Khambula The Forgotten Epic of How the Anglo-Zulu War Was Lost and Won.
As many of the Forum will know I collect illustrations and photographs relating to the Zulu War of 1879. So what could I expect to find on the two major actions of Wood’s No. 4 Column with regard to illustrations. Well to put it bluntly, almost nothing at all.
There is an engraving taken from The Illustrated London News listed as illustration 1, the text accompanying the illustration correctly identifies the subject as Lieutenant George Williams of the Frontier Light Horse, who perished at Hlobane. What is curious is that in the text of the work on page 126, the author states that Lieutenant George Williams was an officer in the Natal Native Contingent. A statement that really jarred with me as the Natal Native Contingent did not serve in No. 4 Column, the African levies in No. 4 Column were named Wood’s Irregulars.
There is a statement that regarding Lieutenant C. C. Williams, of the 58th (Rutlandshire) Regiment, that follows the remark regarding George Williams it is equally confusing, frankly I think the author has confused the two officers.
Contained within the glossy pages of illustrations, and in my opinion, totally out of context with the subject of the work there are four engravings and a modern photograph relating to the death of the Prince Imperial. If those illustrations are out of place, I could not fathom why a modern photograph of what is described as The grave of Lieutenant Colonel Northey at Gingindlovu. had been included. I have stood beside the grave of Brevet Lieutenant-Colonel Francis Vernon Northey, and Epsom is a long way from Gingindlovu. What I could not comprehend was why it included when the photograph is the only obvious mention of Northey?
There is the well-known of engraving of No. 2 Squadron, Mounted Infantry, in action at Gingindlovu listed as No. 14 in the list of illustrations, but the descriptive text states it to be British cavalry in combat with Zulu infantry at Khambula. The two illustrations that precede that erroneously described engraving depict the Battle of Ulundi, are totally out of sequence. The engravings and photographs are a jumble. Moorosi’s Mountain appears with the odd caption, The rugged landscape of Basutoland from which many tough auxiliaries supporting the British came. Personally, I doubt that many of Moorosi’s Baphuthi were allied to the British cause in 1879.
Illustration-wise I found nothing new in this publication, suffice to say the sequence of illustrations is confusing at the very least.
These are just my thoughts on the matter.
JY |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | gardner1879
![gardner1879](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/3201-48.jpg)
Posts : 3460 Join date : 2021-01-04
![W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:24 am | |
| Morning John Regarding your reference to George Williams in the book, does the author mention Alan Gardner at all? (George being killed whilst chatting to Alan on the way up Hlobane) |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | John Young
![John Young](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/1461-56.jpg)
Posts : 3295 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
![W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:56 am | |
| Kate,
Yes he does.
Can I put this tactfully, I don’t think this work will add to your knowledge of Gardner’s involvement with No. 4 Column.
As soon as the place is back in order, why not come down and borrow the book. That way you can form your own opinion.
JY |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | gardner1879
![gardner1879](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/3201-48.jpg)
Posts : 3460 Join date : 2021-01-04
![W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:59 am | |
| That would be smashing, thanks John, I look forward to it. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4087 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
![W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:11 am | |
| John I too looked at this book and noted the errors - there are many more you do not include in your review above. I can't recommend it. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | John Young
![John Young](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/1461-56.jpg)
Posts : 3295 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
![W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Thu Jul 21, 2022 3:43 pm | |
| Julian,
At the present time I have only concentrated on the illustrated content, so much of which is totally irrelevant to subject of the book.
When my research facilities are finally restored I will consider reviewing the actual text, however, with the current demands on my time that will be in the distant future.
JY
Last edited by John Young on Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4087 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
![W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Thu Jul 21, 2022 4:18 pm | |
| Kate I wouldn't look forward to it TOO much! |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | gardner1879
![gardner1879](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/3201-48.jpg)
Posts : 3460 Join date : 2021-01-04
![W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | John Young
![John Young](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/1461-56.jpg)
Posts : 3295 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
![W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Thu Jul 21, 2022 4:25 pm | |
| Julian,
I think Kate is actually referring to my Orange Pekoe loose leaf tea and biscuits. Unless she’s bringing the cakes…
As you can see from Kate’s reply I am proved right.
JY |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4087 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
![W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:37 pm | |
| |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | lfmcgee4
Posts : 28 Join date : 2022-01-11 Location : Pittsburgh, PA USA
![W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Sat Jul 23, 2022 6:39 pm | |
| I was hoping for a more balanced view of JC Russell. Referring to him as a “panicked British Officer” on page 153 seems a bit harsh and doesn’t address any possibility of Wood trying to shift Blame for the loss at Hlobane. Just my opinion, Lee |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | gardner1879
![gardner1879](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/3201-48.jpg)
Posts : 3460 Join date : 2021-01-04
![W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Sat Jul 23, 2022 7:09 pm | |
| That does seem a bit unfair Lee. I have a bit of a soft spot for Russell, and think he was unfairly treated after the 22nd but that is perhaps the subject of another thread.
|
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4087 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
![W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Sat Jul 23, 2022 11:19 pm | |
| I agree. Russell has always seemed to me to have had a raw deal out of his situation. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | | W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… | |
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