Private John Scott 24th Regiment a fugitive at large

Natal Witness 26th July 1881
Escape of Military Prisoners
When the Euphrates, Indian troopship, which recently arrived at Portsmouth from Bombay, was passing through the Suez Canal on the 25th May, John Scott, formally a private of the 24th Regiment under sentance of 20 years penal servitude for attempting to shoot a sergeant of his regiment escaped from the ship. Scott who is a most desperate character, was heavily ironed and placed with ten other convicts who were guarded by a sentry. About 11 o'clock in the night in question on the Corporal going his rounds he noticed a protion of the manacles with which the prisoner had been fettered lying on his bed and the prisoner missing. An alarm was raised and extra sentires posted with ball cartridge. A complete search of the ship was made but without result. It is belived that Scott had been working for some time in filing the bands of iron around his ankles and that he took advantage of the bustle in changing sentries on the night mentioned to slip away and escape by way of the iron hawsers leading from the ship to the banks of th canal. He is described as a man 25 years of age 5ft 6in in height, with grey eyes, light hair and fair complexion. His sentance would expire on the 24th January 1901. On arrival in Paris another prisoner effected his escape. He was in custody for a military offence and managing to get suppied with a suit of cilvilian cloths, he passed out of the ship and through the dockyard gates.

Only one possible in the medal rolls
2/24th Regiment Private 2867 Scott J. 1879 clasp. Medal returned to mint 23/11/1897

I have read the same story in the Gloucester Citizen 13th June 1881. I believe the identification of No. 2867 Scott, J to be correct. It should be noted that by the time the Natal Witness picked up the story in July 1881, our great escaper was safely behind bars.

A record from Pentonville prison has the following details:

Regr. No. H553, Name: John Scott, Date of Reception: 17.6.81, From what Prison: Military Authorities, Date of Discharge: 12.10.81, Whither: Chatham, Remarks: Insub[ordination] & violence to [a] superior officer, CofE. Secunderabad, C.M[artial]. 25 January 81, 20 yrs, soldier 2/24 Regt.

A second document appears to show a transfer to Dover 23/10/1885.

I have edited this post as upon review my initial understanding of the information was wrong. The Date of Discharge is in fact 12.10.81 and not 12.10.87 as I originally thought. Although the register column says 'Date of Discharge' in the case of Scott it is the date he was transferred from Pentonville to Chatham (hence the whither!). The document showing a transfer to Dover in October 1885 is in fact the Chatham register, which correctly shows the Pentonville Register No. H553 and the date of discharge/date of reception. Sorry for any confusion.

Just a footnote to the above details, a photograph of Scott is contained within a Pentonville Prison photograph album.

Hi Dash

Is this the correct John Scott ?

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Andy

or this John Scott?

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Andy

Hi Andy,
believe it or not neither are the man. A popular name it seems. I have downloaded the image but not sure how to upload it here.

Hi Dash

I have sent you a PM.

Andy

Thanks to Dash

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Andy

I wonder if anybody can answer a question about No. 2867 Scott, J. In both the book by Roy Dutton containing the medal roll and The Noble 24th by Norman Holme, Scott has an entitlement to the 1879 clasp. The No. 2867 would appear to be among a batch of replacements arriving at the end of May 1879, unless of course it was a 1-24th or 2-24th number issued before the Brigade prefix. There are higher numbers issued to replacements so my instinct is that his number has a 25B prefix*, but none of those other individuals qualified for the clasp with the exception of No. 2880 E B Dredge (who I will deal with at the end). Does anyone have any evidence that Scott (who probably arrived at the end of May 1879) crossed the border and therefore was entitled to the clasp. As his medal was returned to the mint that avenue has been closed off, it just looks or feels out of sync somehow.

*Scott was officially discharged on or around the 11th July 1881, his length of service towards limited engagement being 6 years and 68 days, giving a potential enlistment sometime in May 1875.

No. 2880 E B Dredge arrived in South Africa at the end of February/beginning of March 1879, according to his service record he was not officially a member of the 24th Regiment until the end of December 1879 (effectively detached from the Coldstream Guards to the 24th for the duration of the war) hence the high number.

Any thoughts or comments welcomed.

I simply have against his name;
SCOTT John – Private – 25B/2867 – 2nd/24th
Service details: Drafting unit not found No.1986. Arrived at Casemate Barracks Gibraltar in the Mediterranean 13/1/1880 aboard H.M.S.Orontes.
Honours/awards: South Africa Medal 1877-8-9 with clasp 1879. Returned to the Woolwich mint 23/11/1897.

There seems to be a bit of confusion in the pay-lists of the 2/24th in mid 1879. Scott is not listed with the draft which arrived on the Euphrates which left Portsmouth on the 30th May and Queenstown on June 2nd.

He is listed in the Oct/Dec pay-list, but with a line through the date column and no pay listed but two days in the cells 25/26 November written in the remarks column.

The Jan/Mar 1880 pay-list however gives him 300+ days pay with the remarks "From 69th Regt 13B/1968" dated 1st May 1879. The 13B is incorrect, the 69th belonged to the 24th Brigade.

I have a copy of the 69th Oct 1878-Mar 1879 pay-list which has 69/1968 John Scott up-to March 1879. I'm at the TNA this weekend so will check the pay-list of the 69th from April 1879 onwards to check dates of transfer. It would appear from his number that he enlisted prior to 1873 so he may have been a boy soldier. I'll try to check circa 1873.

The War Office 97 series General Court Martials 90-7 lists his Court Martial with the same details as already mentioned. He is on the pay of the 2/24th until 10th May 1881 "To England penal servitude"

Medal roll has clasp 1879. It's probable that he was with the 2/24th companies that moved north from Rorke's Drift and set up camps inside Zululand thus entitling him to the 1879 clasp. It's impossible to know 100% unless some-one mentions him in a letter etc.

Bill

Julian, Bill

Many thanks for the information you have shared.

Having had a chance to check the pay-lists of the 69th for 1879/80 (WO 16/1934) bizarrely he is listed as a deserter from the 1st May 1879 (struck off strength 26th May), which is a whole month before the Euphrates sailed. Did they forget he transferred on did he just sneak onboard?!

The Effects & Credits section list him as a member of D Company Place of birth: Birkenhead, Trade: Labourer, Enlisted 04/03/1873 so just before they switched to Brigade numbers.

The pay-list in 1880 as mentions gives him credit from 1st May 1879 with 336 days pay credited, there are no indications of prison for desertion, so it may be there was a mix up in the paperwork?

Bill

Bill,

Hope you had a good time at TNA.

Your post contained some information which as they say 'rang a bell'. I remembered reading an article in a newspaper about an individual doing just as you suggest 'sneaking on board'.

I will look to post the image at some point but here are the points of interest.

The Cavan Weekly News, Friday May 16th, 1879

Private John Scott:

Private John Scott, late of the 69th Regiment, but now on-route for Zululand.

There follows some details about his career, disappointments, etc., and then the good stuff.

"The Orontes was to sail in a day or two for Natal. She was anchored within a mile of him, so here was his last and only chance. He crossed the water and deliberately walks on board the trooper in uniform, and stays there, in the hope that out of a thousand men, made up of a dozen different regiments, and necessarily strangers to each other, he would pass unnoticed until the ship got clear of land. But our pugnacious friend does not like to leave his comrades in doubt as to his whereabouts, so as the vessel drops anchor at Queenstown to take in drafts, he drops a line to his captain, bidding him and the company farewell."

I admit the whole thing reads like a story, but, the details are uncanny. I believe the Orontes set sail in early May 1879, so I think the timescale is right.

I would be interested to hear what other members think.

Well it's a first I'll give you that!

The Orontes did indeed sail from Portsmouth on the 1st May with drafts for most Regiments in South Africa including 1 Sgt and 50 men of the 24th. (It may have included Lts. Connolly and Moore but the embarkation list is not clear, whether it was that date or in July on the "Tenton")

It stopped at Queenstown picking up more drafts plus Capt. Church of the 24th on the 4/5th May. So it sounds like the scenario may be true no matter how far fetched it appears. It would be interesting to see the other details in the article, it may give a clue as to why he possibly went out on his own.

Bill

Hi Bill

The whole article

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Cavan Weekly News and General Advertiser, 16 May 1879.

Andy

Andy,

Many thanks for posting, I will master this technology at some point!

Dash

Yes,

Cheers for the upload, very interesting set of circumstances!

Bill

I agree. A remarkable newspaper report, well worth reproducing here. Thank you Dash.