Latest topics | » The Passing of Lady Ellen Baker.Yesterday at 11:35 pm by John Young » Dr. A. Ralph BusbyYesterday at 9:14 am by Julian Whybra » Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Fri Nov 22, 2024 9:31 am by Julian Whybra » Lieutenant M.G. Wales, 1st Natal Native ContingentSat Nov 16, 2024 12:32 pm by Matthew Turl » Colonel Edward William Bray, 2nd/4th Regt.Fri Nov 15, 2024 9:55 pm by Julian Whybra » Royal Marine Light Infantry, ChathamThu Nov 14, 2024 7:57 pm by Petty Officer Tom » H.M.S. ForesterThu Nov 14, 2024 4:07 pm by johnex » Samuel PoppleWed Nov 13, 2024 8:43 am by STEPHEN JAMES » Studies in the Zulu War volume VI now availableSat Nov 09, 2024 6:38 pm by Julian Whybra » Colonel Charles Knight PearsonFri Nov 08, 2024 5:56 pm by LincolnJDH » Grave of Henry SpaldingThu Nov 07, 2024 8:10 pm by 1879graves » John West at KambulaThu Nov 07, 2024 5:25 pm by MKalny15 » Private Frederick Evans 2/24thSun Nov 03, 2024 8:12 pm by Dash » How to find medal entitlement CokerSun Nov 03, 2024 10:51 am by Kev T » Isandlwana Casualty - McCathie/McCarthySat Nov 02, 2024 1:40 pm by Julian Whybra » William Jones CommentFri Nov 01, 2024 6:07 pm by Eddie » Brother of Lt YoungFri Nov 01, 2024 5:13 pm by Eddie » Frederick Marsh - HMS TenedosFri Nov 01, 2024 9:48 am by lydenburg » Mr Spiers KIA iSandlwana ?Fri Nov 01, 2024 7:50 am by Julian Whybra » Isandhlwana unaccounted for casualtiesFri Nov 01, 2024 7:48 am by Julian Whybra » Thrupps report to Surgeon General Wolfies Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:32 pm by Julian Whybra » Absence of Vereker from Snook's BookFri Oct 25, 2024 10:59 pm by Julian Whybra » Another Actor related to the Degacher-Hitchcock familyMon Oct 21, 2024 1:07 pm by Stefaan » No. 799 George Williams and his son-in-law No. 243 Thomas NewmanSat Oct 19, 2024 12:36 pm by Dash » Alphonse de Neuville- Painting the Defence of Rorke's DriftFri Oct 18, 2024 8:34 am by Stefaan » Studies in the Zulu War volumesWed Oct 16, 2024 3:26 pm by Julian Whybra » Martini Henry carbine IC1 markingsMon Oct 14, 2024 10:48 pm by Parkerbloggs » James Conner 1879 claspMon Oct 14, 2024 7:12 pm by Kenny » 80th REG of Foot (Staffords)Sun Oct 13, 2024 9:07 pm by shadeswolf » Frontier Light Horse uniformSun Oct 13, 2024 8:12 pm by Schlaumeier » Gelsthorpe, G. 1374 Private 1/24th / Scott, Sidney W. 521 Private 1/24thSun Oct 13, 2024 1:00 pm by Dash » A Bullet BibleSat Oct 12, 2024 8:33 am by Julian Whybra » Brothers SearsFri Oct 11, 2024 7:17 pm by Eddie » Zulu War Medal MHS TamarFri Oct 11, 2024 3:48 pm by philip c » Ford Park Cemetery, Plymouth.Tue Oct 08, 2024 4:15 pm by rai |
November 2024 | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri | Sat | Sun |
---|
| | | | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | | Calendar |
|
Top posting users this month | |
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. |
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address.
Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.
If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.
We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes.
There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site.
The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum.
The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. |
Fair Use Notice | Fair use notice.
This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner.
We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes.
We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website.
If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution. |
|
| Capture of two Englishmen | |
| | Author | Message |
---|
Eddie
Posts : 819 Join date : 2022-07-13 Age : 65 Location : Newport Wales
| Subject: Capture of two Englishmen Fri Oct 07, 2022 5:44 pm | |
| South Wales Daily News, Tuesday 11May, 1879.
This spoken by an M P
Capture of two Englishmen alive.
It is said Cetewayo ordered his people to bring him two Englishmen alive and unwounded to his Kraal, and I hear they have got them. A white man, it is said, was among the Zulus fighting on their side, but I should hope this was not true.
Spoken in the commons that week. Who was the white man fighting for the Zulus? Who were the two Englishmen?
Last edited by Eddie on Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
| | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4187 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Capture of two Englishmen Sun Oct 09, 2022 8:51 am | |
| A rumour which was doing the rounds at the time. No truth in it I'm afraid. Read the Natal newspapers for the corollary. |
| | | ADMIN
Posts : 4358 Join date : 2008-11-01 Age : 65 Location : KENT
| Subject: Re: Capture of two Englishmen Sun Oct 09, 2022 5:00 pm | |
| |
| | | Eddie
Posts : 819 Join date : 2022-07-13 Age : 65 Location : Newport Wales
| Subject: Re: Capture of two Englishmen Sun Oct 09, 2022 10:06 pm | |
| Thank you Admin
I have found a newspaper article just on that subject.
South Wales Daily News, Thursday, May 22, 1879.
A Gunner capture and escape.
One of Weatherly's horse troopers, named Grandier, engaged at IIlobani, tells a wonderful tale. He says he was captured by some Zulus and conveyed to the king's Kraal, where he was interviewed by Cetewayo, who wanted him to repair the two guns taken at Isandlwana. He says he saw the guns spiked. When the king found he could not or would not assist him, he sent him to Umbelini's Kraal, to be sacrificed to the manes of the chief, but he escaped by killing one of the Zulus sent to guard him, the other taking flight, then returned to Woods column, and reported he saw 20,000 Zulus marching to Ulinidi. He states when at Ulinidi he saw a Portuguese who makes gun for Cetshwayo. He also saw a man, whom he descibed as half caste Dutchman, who translates for him. Cetewayo told him he would kill Oham and Shepstone and everyone else, as he had plenty of men to do the work. Grandier was threatened and beaten, and for four days had nothing but mealies to eat.
Last edited by Eddie on Sun Oct 09, 2022 10:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
| | | Eddie
Posts : 819 Join date : 2022-07-13 Age : 65 Location : Newport Wales
| Subject: Re: Capture of two Englishmen Sun Oct 09, 2022 10:13 pm | |
| Another article in the same newspaper and date above:
On the Orange river encountered the Korannas. Amongst the prisoners taken was a white man named M'Carthy, who is believed to have been leading the enemy. A petty chief, with some 80 followers, has surrendered in Basutoland.
Who is this M'Carthy? |
| | | John Young
Posts : 3316 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
| Subject: Re: Capture of two Englishmen Mon Oct 10, 2022 7:21 am | |
| Eddie, I haven’t studied Griqua - then sometimes referred to as Korannas - history of the period to any great extent, but a search does reveal the name MacCarthy does appear in relation to Griqua “bandits” or “rebels” at the time.
Suffice to say it has nothing to do with the AmaZulu or the Zulu War.
JY
|
| | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4187 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Capture of two Englishmen Mon Oct 10, 2022 9:30 am | |
| And note that Grandier, the only POW in the war, was captured at Hlobane. The newspaper you quote from in your first post dates from BEFORE that battle!! As I said before, there is no truth in the report. |
| | | Eddie
Posts : 819 Join date : 2022-07-13 Age : 65 Location : Newport Wales
| Subject: Re: Capture of two Englishmen Mon Oct 10, 2022 9:57 am | |
| Thank you John/Julian.
There is another article in The Weekly Mail, Saturday, May 24th,1879. This time written in the Cape Times.
The Cape Times states that some fighting has occured in the Northern Frontier border, when 21 prisoners were taken including a white man named M'Carthy, who has been among the enemy since the beginning of the war.
This comes under the heading: THE WAR IN ZULULAND.
The Cape Times states M'Carthy being among the enemy since the beginning of the war. To my mind there was only one war being fought at that time in Zululand, I may be wrong. John you maybe right in your post above but this clearly states, "The War".in a cape newspaper.
|
| | | Eddie
Posts : 819 Join date : 2022-07-13 Age : 65 Location : Newport Wales
| Subject: Re: Capture of two Englishmen Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:10 am | |
| Julian.
I have edited the date in my original post, as predicted text placed March instead of May |
| | | John Young
Posts : 3316 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
| Subject: Re: Capture of two Englishmen Mon Oct 10, 2022 11:08 am | |
| Eddie,
The Cape Colony was also at war in 1879 on the colony’s northern borders fighting in what is now Lesotho.
The fighting took place between late February and late November 1879 against Moorosi of the Baphuthi. The Orange River mentioned above by yourself was in that theatre of operations.
The Zulu War was in fact one of three wars fought in Southern Africa in 1879.
Moorosi’s Mountain or Moorosi’s Stronghold are often wrongly associated with the Zulu War, despite the fact it was nowhere near to KwaZulu, so you have to be careful as the newspaper content that you consider.
Three Victoria Crosses were awarded to members of the Cape Colonial Forces during the campaign against Moorosi.
JY |
| | | Eddie
Posts : 819 Join date : 2022-07-13 Age : 65 Location : Newport Wales
| Subject: Re: Capture of two Englishmen Mon Oct 10, 2022 2:57 pm | |
| Thank you very much for that John, that is very interesting. Shame the newspapers couldn't get it right, and included it within the Zulu war. Thank you for straightening things out for me. As Julian says, there was only one prisoner taken during the war.
So as you say, M'Carthy was a bandit as such, or a rebel belonging to the Moorosi's.
Once again misinterpreted by the British Press as part of the Zulu war. Where as the Cape Times was stating the facts as they were in their Northern borders, the British believed it to be part of the Zulu war.
Thank you once again
|
| | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4187 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Capture of two Englishmen Mon Oct 10, 2022 5:44 pm | |
| Eddie Note that the newspapers didn't get it wrong - they correctly published what they had in effect had been reported. It just didn't happen to be true. A bit like WOMD!! |
| | | | Capture of two Englishmen | |
|
Similar topics | |
|
| Permissions in this forum: | You cannot reply to topics in this forum
| |
| |
| |