The last survivor at Isandhlwana

Subject: Re: The last survivor at Isandhlwana Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:17 pm

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Posts : 2308 Join date : 2010-07-02 Age : 44

If this is true, could he not have been one of Younghusband's men, who for some reason didn't charge down wth the rest. Would the cave have been accessible from where Younghusband was located on the ridge?

Subject: The last survivor at Isandlwana Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:24 am

Hi Impi.
I'd be very much surprised if he wasnt one of Younghusband's men !
cheers 90th.

Guest

Hi all

If this can is a legend ...

Because as someone said on another subject, after the war, whites were being told to Zulu, what they wanted ...

Salute

Pascal

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27

Chelmsfordthescapegoat wrote:: I have never read that empty cartridges had been found in the cave again there would have been quite a few.

Hi CTSG

From the Noble 24th.

"I came to a small cave. Looking into this i saw the floor strewn with empty cartridge cases, also shreds of a red serge jacket. Evidently some poor 24th man had defended himslf and made a stand here, In searching about 100 yards below the summit i came across a human skeleton with a rope round the neck. After fetching our doctor from the camp i asked if the remains were those of a white or black man. He replied undoutedly a white man."

Guest

Too bad we can not know his identity ...

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27

It was Lt Mainwaring. Salute

Guest

What company?

Subject: The last survivor at Isandlwana Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:29 pm

Hi DB.
I think Pascal is asking about the identity of the body that was in the cave .

Pascal .
It's Lt Mainwaring's comments , not his body beneath the hill .

cheers 90th. Salute

Subject: Re: The last survivor at Isandhlwana Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:05 am

Interesting that we are having quotes about a man being shot in 'a little white house', when the last few days has been all about a denial that the tents were still standing.

Regards

Guest

Hi all

DB14 Yes, I thought you knew the identity of this illustrious stranger!

Sprinbok9, I think the guy would be back in a tent during the massacre of Isandhlwana, could have a bad encounter ...

But in any case, the tents were standing ....

Salute

Pascal

Subject: Re: The last survivor at Isandhlwana Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:39 pm

springbok9 wrote:: Interesting that we are having quotes about a man being shot in 'a little white house', when the last few days has been all about a denial that the tents were still standing.

Regards

The tents were still standing when the Zulus entered the camp.
Not sure how many were still standing whem the Zulus had finished sacking the camp, prior to LC's return.

Subject: The last survivor at Isandlwana Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:12 pm

Hi Tasker .
Basically none , the zulus had cut the canvas into pieces etc and took it with them . This I think from one of Ian Knight's books ,
possibly ' Zulu Rising ' .
cheers 90th. Salute

Posts : 2308 Join date : 2010-07-02 Age : 44

Just an observation. Why is this thread called "The last survivor at Isandlwana" he didn't survive.

Posts : 627 Join date : 2009-01-20 Age : 46

Impi great observation skills. :lol:

Posts : 187 Join date : 2010-02-04

Pascal MAHE wrote:: Too bad we can not know his identity ...

Sawubona told me that the guide knew his identity

Subject: Re: The last survivor at Isandhlwana Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:51 pm

Impi
Last suvivor did just that, suvive. The claim to have been the last was made I believe by Dougal Mcphail. Last person to die we will never know.

Regards

Posts : 2308 Join date : 2010-07-02 Age : 44

" MacPhail ,Â lived to the age of 101 years. He was famous as being one of the last survivors of the battle of Isandlwana in 1879, where he had served in the Buffalo Border Guard as the quartermaster. He served in the Anglo Boer War, the Bambatha Rebellion, the First World War and when he tried to enlist for the Second World War was turned down as he was considered to be too old."

Subject: Re: The last survivor at Isandhlwana Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:17 am

Fiesty old bugger wasnt he. Could expect him really to be one of the last.

Regards

Subject: Re: The last survivor at Isandhlwana Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:31 pm

Heres a new take on the last of the 24th. This could account as to why no body was discovered in the cave. Or could this be another incident.?

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The author of the book, on the link below, didn't take part in the Zulu War, but he did in the Boarwar. The images above are based on a conversation he had with a Zulu who witnessed the event.

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Page 337

Subject: Re: The last survivor at Isandhlwana Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:42 am

Might not be a wholly reliable account, possibly a bit of exaggeration in the account in places, but the account of the last soldier charging out of the cave when he knew the game was over may well be true.
But aren't there other accounts which tell of the man in the cave being overcome by volleys of fire from fire arms? Unless this is a separate incident and a different soldier. Question

Subject: Re: The last survivor at Isandhlwana Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:53 am

Hi Tasker .
The chap in the cave story I've seen mentioned a few times in books here and there , and it's always the same ending , the
zulu said they fired a volley into the cave which killed the soldier . Cant say I can ever remember reading where someone
has charged out of a cave , the only last gasp charge I've heard of is the Younghusband episode .
Cheers 90th.

Subject: Re: The last survivor at Isandhlwana Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:06 pm

Agreed. The account LH posted may well have happened, but it is likely to be a different account to the cave soldier. Given the number of soldiers that lost their lives that day, it is not unreaonable that there will be numerous accounts of how men bravely faced their end.

Subject: Re: The last survivor at Isandhlwana Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:08 pm

Crevis in the rocks/Cave?
Doesnt matter its wonderful Boys Own Victorian Drama and I love it.

Cant you just see it happening.......... "o ell no bloody bullets left, aye up then yer buggers ear I come.".

Salute

to all of them, 144 year ago they were just stopping work for the evening ready for a peaceful nights sleep under the rocks.
Dartnells messenger had just encountered Chelmsford on the plateau.
20 000 zulus were preparing to die a warriors death.
Durnford was battling to get a contingent to stand guard.

They were all alive and full of anticipation.

Sad

Subject: Re: The last survivor at Isandhlwana Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:58 pm

springbok9 wrote:: Cant you just see it happening.......... "o ell no bloody bullets left, aye up then yer buggers ear I come.".

to all of them, .

I can certainly well imagine it happening all right. And so many other great stories of bravery that we'll never know about. No reason to doubt that Zulu's story, whoever he was.
And that charge would not have been a spur of the moment thing either. Anyone who has ever spent some time in and has had time to think whilst in a combat zone, will know that thoughts cross your mind and these things get contemplated by individuals. You will have thought it through, that if the time comes and the enemy are closing in, you're down to your last few bullets: what am I going to do?

Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 62 Location : UK

Has ever been established if there is a cave at Isandlwana. Crevice seems more like it. No wonder he run at them once his ammo had been used up. You could say, this chap was between a rock and a hard place.

Subject: Re: The last survivor at Isandhlwana Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:08 pm

John
There is indeed a cave on the south eastern side of Isandlwana. I've had the privilege, on several occasions, to spend some time in it, letting my imagination run wild. Mind you, on my last visit the cave was full of flies! It has a depth of around five to six foot, and would've made quite a good place for a last defence. Also, if true, his view of the carnage in the camp would've been truly horrifying

Subject: Re: The last survivor at Isandhlwana Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:05 am

Hi Springbok .
Many of the chaps on both sides have had their last nights sleep on this earth , also their last breakfasts in many cases I'd expect as well . 134 yrs today , things were beginning to unfold . Mid morning I'm thinking at Isandlwana !.
Cheers 90th.

Subject: Re: The last survivor at Isandhlwana Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:25 pm

springbok
An NNC picquet was placed on top of Isandhlwana. More interestingly there was also a picquet (Natal Carbineers) placed on Stony Koppie. Now, what happened to that would be really interesting to know...presumably, having the best chance of escape they were able to ride off as soon as they saw they were being cut off from the camp.

Subject: Re: The last survivor at Isandhlwana Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:01 pm

Hi Julian
Somehow Ive allways connected the corpse/s found under the mountain, one with a rope around his neck and I believe one with crushed skull with the lookout on the mountain, absolutly no proof at all just bags of conjecture.
What I cant understand at all is that the view across the plateau from the top of the mountain to Mabaso is pretty good. Not as often reported by the many authors. That lookout had a clear view so no matter if the impi was at position X or Ngwebini valley when they crested their respective ridges they were visible.
'Stoney Koppie'? Is that the conical koppie that was initial base for Stevens?
Im still playing around with the whole question of activities on the plateau, its possible I may rather do the Rubbics Cube behind my back while being slowly throttled. Both of course being equally pleasurable.

Regards

Subject: Re: The last survivor at Isandhlwana Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:19 pm

springbok
Stony Koppie is Mahlabamkhosi. I tend to prefer to use the contemporary terminology so that there's no confusion caused when quoting from accounts. So you see what I mean about a picquet there. Conical koppie is Amatutshane.
Yes, a clear view of Mabaso from the top of Isandhlwana...I suppose that by the time the impi was found (at x or nearby) the amount of time it would take for the message to get down the mountain by runner to Pulleine is going to be about the same amount of time as it took Shepstone to gallop back down from the plateau to tell Pulleine himself.
The crushed skull chap I tend to think was knobkerried rather than thrown off the mountaintop.

Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 62 Location : UK

Quote :: one with a rope around his neck

Anymore information on this Please!!!

Subject: Re: The last survivor at Isandhlwana Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:38 pm

Julian
Sorry Mahlabamkhosi, Blacks, Stony, far to many names. Cant recall the piquet there. To late at night in SA and to damned hot to start going through the notes. Cold beers on the pool patio Im afraid.
John
No more details than that , a body was found with a rope around the neck.

Cheers

Subject: Re: The last survivor at Isandhlwana Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:04 am

Hi Julian
I cant seem to locate any reference to a Carbineer piquet on MahlabamKhosi. There is a mention of James Lonsdale having a detail on the back of the mountain as an evening piquet. I have Scott positioning 4 vedets on the ridge, one on Quabe hill and one on Nyezi plus himself on Amatutshane. This in addition of course to Barries men on th knoll.

Regards

Subject: Re: The last survivor at Isandhlwana Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:42 am

Hi
The picquets are marked on Anstey's map.

Subject: Re: The last survivor at Isandhlwana Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:58 am

Hi Julian

My copy of Ansteys is only A4 so difficult to pick up, but nothing indicated on Mainwaring, James or Jackson.

Regards

Guest

But this is not The last survivor at Isandhlwana, because he was killed Very Happy

This may be the last soldier of the 24th killed at Isandhlwana

Posts : 1093 Join date : 2009-01-14 Location : East London

Quote :: But this is not The last survivor at Isandhlwana, because he was killed

I was wondering when someone was going to pickup on that Salute

Guest

All truth is not good to say, is not it ?

Posts : 2308 Join date : 2010-07-02 Age : 44

Pascal what should the thread be retitled. Very Happy

Guest

New tittle for this topic : Stupidity of the last killed of the 24 th at Isandhlwana (if it is one I think Very Happy

)

Subject: Re: The last survivor at Isandhlwana Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:33 am

This has been a vexed question for a while and its something Ive been trying to chase down. This below is from a report compiled by Mainwaring on a trip after the war when he visited Rorkes Drift and iSandlwana. I found the report in amongst some other bits and pieces on Tiger hunting that he had put together.
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So possibly this is confirmation of the Zulu reports.

Regards

Posts : 269 Join date : 2010-12-02 Location : Kloof, KZN

Frank
You have made a most interesting discovery. That must surely settle the issue. Does Mainwaring's report help to identify the position of the cave?
Regards
Brett

Subject: Re: The last survivor at Isandhlwana Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:08 am

Good Morning Brett
Im afraid not. In a prievious paragraph he comments that while he was measuring for his battlefield survey he saw three men wandering around on the mountain top. For some reason he adjudged the path would be from the eastern side. It was scaling that side that he discovered the cave. I found it interesting in that its the only confirmation of the Zulu report and hopefully it will settle the argument as to the veracity of that Zulu claim.

I will be posting other odds and sods over the coming days that I found interesting in the archives.

Regards

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

Bonsoir Frank,
An account by Major Mainwaring written on 22 January 1895 (Cairo), published in " The Noble 24th" by Norman Holme .
Cheers
Frédēric

Subject: Re: The last survivor at Isandhlwana Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:06 pm

Frank
Re your scouts, I see your following the positioning as per L&Q for which there is no hard evidence whatsoever. Anstey's map and Mansel's sketch are quite explicit about the scouts' location and whilst they agree with one another, they do not agree with L&Q (I refer to the far flung eastern scouts).

Subject: Re: The last survivor at Isandhlwana Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:11 pm

Sorry Julian you've lost me

Subject: Re: The last survivor at Isandhlwana Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:56 am

I'm sorry, Frank, my fault, I was catching up on posts.
You wrote earlier:
"I cant seem to locate any reference to a Carbineer piquet on MahlabamKhosi. There is a mention of James Lonsdale having a detail on the back of the mountain as an evening piquet. I have Scott positioning 4 vedets on the ridge, one on Quabe hill and one on Nyezi plus himself on Amatutshane. This in addition of course to Barries men on th knoll."
In my clumsy way I was asking you where you had come across any confirmation that there were picquets on Qwabe and Nyezi.

» Isandhlwana survivor of N/5 ??
» Trooper W. Sibthorpe, Natal Carbineers, a survivor of the massacre at Isandhlwana
» They were really at Isandhlwana ?