Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th"

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

Hello everybody,

I have bought, Toby GIESE book's, "The men of the 24th" (1987).
I am very surprised by the photos of:
-p.20: Francis F. WHITE,
-p.21 James PULLEN (2nd photo)
-p.44 Charles d'A. POPE
-p.26 George FR.J. HODSON

Do these photos really show these officers? (no error? / example: error on the identity of Cavaye and Porteous, photo p. 33 with Degacher).

Thanks for your help.

Regards

YMOB

Subject: Toby Giese . '' Men Of The 24th '' Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:19 am

Hi ymob..
The South African Campaign Of 1879 by J.P Mackinnon and S.H. Shadbolt has photographs of the 62 officers killed in the
zulu war . This also has summaries of the Army and Naval Brigades throughout the war . My copy is nearly 400 pages .
I will send you a link for this book and another which has many photographs . Hope this helps . Not sure if they will be
printed in French ! Idea

.
cheers 90th. Wink

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

90th wrote:: Hi ymob..
The South African Campaign Of 1879 by J.P Mackinnon and S.H. Shadbolt has photographs of the 62 officers killed in the
zulu war . This also has summaries of the Army and Naval Brigades throughout the war . My copy is nearly 400 pages .
I will send you a link for this book and another which has many photographs . Hope this helps . Not sure if they will be
printed in French ! .
cheers 90th.

Hello 90th

Thanks for your help.
(smile) Only one book on the zulu war is printing in french (D. CLAMMER)!
So, since one year, i learn english!!!!
I have already in my collection all the photos of the IMPERIAL officers present at Isandlwana.
I am just surprising by those of WHITE, PULLEN, POPE (maybe HOSDON) in the book of GIESE (very different those in others books on the subject).
I estimate your invaluable information (for the book "the south...of 1879").
I have already bought (and read) the other...not at the same price!!!

Regard

YMOB

Subject: Toby Giese . '' Men Of The 24th '' Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:30 pm

Hi ymob.
I'm happy I was some help to you .
cheers 90th . Idea

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

ymob wrote:: Hello everybody,

I have bought, Toby GIESE book's, "The men of the 24th" (1987).
I am very surprised by the photos of:
-p.20: Francis F. WHITE,
-p.21 James PULLEN (2nd photo)
-p.44 Charles d'A. POPE
-p.26 George FR.J. HODSON

Do these photos really show these officers? (no error? / example: error on the identity of Cavaye and Porteous, photo p. 33 with Degacher).

Thanks for your help.

Regards

YMOB

Hello,
I have asked this question before the arrival on this forum of "specialists" as John Young, Isundula or Julian Whybra.
I know Mister John Young had purchased a copy of this book... for 4£ (from memory). Very Happy

Maybe, one of them could answer to the question?
Thanks.
Frédéric

Guest

Bonjour ymob. yes its a funny little book
is it not, written by an american i believe,
you cannot fault his enthusiasm..but i
understand your query's.p20 looks more
like Cavaye to me,the second Pullen p 21,
maybe Bloomfield, not sure but i have seen
that face before. p 44 looks like charlie
pope, p26. i dont recal that face,you
will get your answers soon, there is sure
to be some one to put us straight. as i
said this book is a little gem of an oddity.
cheers xhosa

Subject: Re: Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:04 pm

Frédéric,

Yes all four of those are correct.

Although I agree there are some very strange captions in The Men of the 24th, that are far from correct.

Page 33 is a classic: 'A' is Lt. F. P. Porteous; 'B' is Lt. C. W. Cavaye & 'C' is Captain W. Degacher.

Page 11 Pulleine has become Bromhead, blame Michael Barthorp for that one, it appears in the early editions of his Pictorial History.

To me Toby Giese's work is a curiosity, and one that should not be relied on without cross-referencing.

Regards,

JY

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

John Young wrote:: Frédéric,

Yes all four of those are correct.

Although I agree there are some very strange captions in The Men of the 24th, that are far from correct.

Page 33 is a classic: 'A' is Lt. F. P. Porteous; 'B' is Lt. C. W. Cavaye & 'C' is Captain W. Degacher.

Page 11 Pulleine has become Bromhead, blame Michael Barthorp for that one, it appears in the early editions of his Pictorial History.

To me Toby Giese's work is a curiosity, and one that should not be relied on without cross-referencing.

Regards,

JY

Bonsoir Mister Young and Xhosa,
Great!!!!
Many thanks for your help.
I am really very happy for the correct identification of these photos of Pullen, Pope,White and Hodson that i have never seen in other book.
(I have one hundred books on the zulu war and these photos are only in this book!)
I dont understand why it's often the same photos in the books....
Mister Young... i have a dream ( sorry mister Luther King), a book of photos on the AZW in association with Isundula...
Encore merci.
Bien à vous.
Frédéric

Guest

Thanks frederic/JY, frederic,as JY
knows i share the same dream as
you. xhosa

Subject: Re: Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:47 pm

JY has been far more polite than I would have been. Giese's book is very poor in terms of reliability and content. It is also heavily reliant on Morris's book and consequently very out-of-date.

Posts : 2593 Join date : 2009-04-24

But you would have been more polite, If it had been heavily reliant on Jackson's book.

Guest

agree with JW re. content, but as
a book collector its quirky and odd,
and so thin it takes no room.

Posts : 7 Join date : 2013-10-21 Location : Surrey, UK

I met Ian Knight a few years ago at a VMS event, not long after this book had been published. I recall that he said something to the effect that
the author said that he had some dreams which allowed him to name these soldiers where everyone else had failed. If my memory serves me
correctly, he had named every soldier appearing in a famous after the battle photo of the 24th regiment. Mr Knight said that this was pure fantasy.

For this reason, I did not add this one to my plethora of books on the subject!

Subject: Re: Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:15 am

CTSG

play nice

Subject: Re: Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:09 am

CTSG
Because Jackson annotates every source he uses and does not identify a 24th letter-writer complaining he can't get hold of any tobacco with a 24th soldier in a photo on the basis that he's smoking a pipe.
That's fairly typical.

Posts : 2593 Join date : 2009-04-24

springbok9 wrote:: CTSG

play nice

» The book of Toby Giese
» Members of the 1/24th & 2nd/24th Reg of foot present at R.D 22/23 Jan 1879 but who was serving between 1866-69
» The 24th Regiment at Isandlwana. Her Majesty decorating the recovered colours of the 1st Battlion, Osborne House.