Isandlwana, Last Stands

Forbes

In one spot 50 men of the 24th seem to have fallen as if in a rally square.

Bassage record most of G company was lying togther. There are cairns there today.


Black wrote that 60 24th men including Younghusband and 2 officer that couldn't be recognized were under the
southern crags of Isandlwana. There are cairns there today.

68 men of the 24th fell behind the 1st 24th tents, Wardle an Dyer being identifed. 2 officers were found but
could not be recognized. There are cairns there today.

Lt Anstey and 40 men managed to fight there way down 2 miles of the fugites trail before being surounded and killed. There are cairns there today. Anstey's body was removed by his brother.

40 colonails died around Col. Durnfords body. There are cairns and graves there today.

50 men of the 24th died in the 2/24th camp.

Sources

Longhurst, Shepstone, Forbes, Macfarlane, Norris-Newman, Prior, Black, Bassage, Symonds, Mansel, Anstey, Mainwaring.

Julian. Some of us don't have access to primary sources, but are primary sources not used in all the books written on the Zulu war. Unfortunately you quote these wonderfully resouces would help if you posted some.

LH

Disprove with priamary sources that these people are lying.

Longhurst, Shepstone, Forbes, Macfarlane, Norris-Newman, Prior, Black, Bassage, Symonds, Mansel, Anstey, Mainwaring, Maxwell, Boast, Bromhead.

LH
You also wrote
"Because the primary sources have been alter[ed] so much no one knows what the truth is."
Would you like to be more specific here?
I know of no primary source that has been altered or doctored. One can read the original despatches and accounts in the National Army Museum, the BL, the Senate Library, and so on. When they are reproduced in Jackson, Knight, et al., they are the same. Nothing has been altered or added.
Your premise is utterly at fault and without basis.

LH
You wrote:

"Some of us don't have access to primary sources, but are primary sources not used in all the books written on the Zulu war. Unfortunately you quote these wonderfully resouces would help if you posted some."

Your meaning here is difficult to ascertain because the sentence does not make sense. However, perhaps YOU should have access to these sources before you begin to post statements that cannot be substantiated or go against what is known.
Go on, treat yourself to a day in London, they are free and open to the public.

Julian. I fully understand what Littlehand is saying. Maybe I should use laymans terms so you can understand.

The books most of us own on the Anglo Zulu War 1879 contain primary source accounts. So is it really necessary to go to London to see the resources that are all ready available in the books we purchase.

Julian. Just out of curiosity. What is your opinion on these two resources. Posted by DB & LH

On Friday, the 14th of March, a party of volunteers, under Lientenant-Colonel Black, 2-24th Regiment, consisting of
Captain Symons. Captain Harvey, Lieutenant Banister, and Sergeant Tigar, of the 2-24th, Commandant Cooper, and twelve officers of the Natal Native Contingent, and ten of the Mounted Police, left Rorke's Drift, at 7 a.m., crossed the Buffalo on the pont, and rode through the Bashee Valley to make a reconnoissance of the camp at Isandwhlana. The scouts in advance saw fires burning in the kraals in the Bashee Valley, and disturbed three armed men with guns near the drift at the foot of the Isandwhlana Hill, who ran off at the approach of the party. Arrived on the now well-known and oft-described 'ridge,' a horrible scene of desolation was spread before them, and the still highly-tainted air filled their nostrils. After posting vedettes on all sides to guard against a surprise, they proceeded systemati- cally to examine the whole of the battle-field. Some thirty Zulus were seen running from the kraal in front of the camp, and when out of sight they fired several shots, with the intention, no doubt, of giving the alarm, and shortly afterwards signal-fires were seen burning on the hills. The Guard-tent of the 2-24th Regiment was first searched, in hopes of finding some trace of the two colours of the regiment, which had been left there on the morning of the 22nd of January last. The tent, colours, and belts had all been taken away. They next searched each camp in detail, and afterwards rode down by the side of the 'donga' that ran in front of the camp; and then still farther afield, where the different incidents and phases of the terrible battle were supposed to have taken place, and observed the following: The Zulu dead had all been removed. The waggons to the number of over 100 were uninjured, and stood for the most part where they were left. All the tents had been burnt, cut up and taken away, the poles only being left. Everything of value had been looted, and what had not been taken away had been stabbed vrith assegais. Sponges, boots, brushes of all descriptions, quantities of books, papers, photographs, gaiters, and various other articles were scattered about. Horses and mules were lyingy still tied to the piquet-ropes and waggons, and a good manyskeletons of oxen were scattered here and there. The bodies of our poor brave soldiers showed where the fury of the enemy
had overtaken them. They were all in and about the camp, or down the path the fugitives took; not a dozen could be in the whole surrounding of the camp, nor in the 'donga,' bearing out tiie testimony of survivors, who relate that while
the soldiers held the donga they suffered no loss. The greatest number counted lying together within a very small compass was sixty-eighty and these were in the left rear of the lst/24th, near the officers' mess-tent. The majority were 24th men, but there were some of other arms as well. As regards the state of the bodies, a subject of morbid but painful interest, they were in all conditions of horrible decay. Some were perfect skeletons; others that had not been stripped, or only partially so, were quite unapproachable, and the stench was sickening; with but fewexceptions, it was impossible to recognise any one, and the only officer that was seen was discovered by his clothes. It was considered that it would be three to four weeks before the bones could be collected and buried. Were an attempt to be made to do so now nothing could be done but to throw earth over the corpses. Close to the small heap of dead bodies before men- tioned, the colour-belt of the 1st/24th Regiment was found by Corporal Ghroschky, Natal Mounted Police; it was the most interesting thing found, though not perhaps the most valuable, as Captain Symons found a large bundle of cheques belonging to him that had not been opened. Having thoroughly searched
the camp, they proceeded to look for the two guns. One limber was found on the road leading down the valley towards the Izipesi Mountain, about a quarter of a mile to the front of the camp. The other limber, much broken, was found lying in the ravine where Lieutenant Curling, R.A., described the guns as having been upset and lost; and the team of six horses, all harnessed together, was lying by it; the ravine was so steep that one or two of the horses were suspended by the harness over the stream; both the guns and carriages had been removed. This ravine is about half a mile from 'the ridge,' and numbers of bodies were lying between the two. On the order to retire being given, the party returned by the same road, being twice fired upon, without effect, by two small parties of natives; once as they were leaving the ravine, and the second time from the 'krantzes' above the Bashee Valley.


And I posted this. Both primary sources.

"On the 14th March 1879, seven weeks after the battle, the first official visit to the battle-site took place. The party comprised Major W. Black, Commandant Cooper and Major J.G. Dartnell, accompanied by officers of the 24th of Foot, the Natal Native Contingent, and a party of the Natal Mounted Police. They had hardly arrived on the site when they came under fire and had to retire hastily to Rorke’s Drift, having accomplished nothing more than a quick glimpse of the scene of destruction and death (Knight 1992:124)"

Julian. You may live near or in London. I'm miles away. The whole idea of a discussion forum it's not only to contribute but learn as well, your name is quite well known withing the realms of Zulu War Knowledge. So it would no doubt be appricated by many if you were to help instead of telling everyone to check primary sources.

If you are so clued up, on theses primary sources why don't you publish a book. I can then throw all my other books away.

24th

Norris-Newman mentins the 14th of March vist in his book.

DB.where did you get the copy of Blacks report.

They are both in Snooks book on RD.

Do you have on handy. If so what does the foot note say regarding this report.

I gave it back to the libray.

It said something like wilson black's original reports.

No worrie's thanks anyway.

Here's another mention of Black.
With a few more dates..

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On 14th March 1879 Major Wilsone Black was ordered forward with a small escort to Isandlwana to survey the camp. He reported back the horrific state of the decomposing bodies and the stench of death still very much around. His report recommended immediate action to clear the field of British dead.
 
On 15th May 1879 Major Black again led a probe back to Isandlwana from Rorke’s Drift to access the suitability to recover abandoned wagons from the site. His report suggested that there were sufficient wagons available for recovery and so Chelmsford was duty bound to recover the wagons and bury the dead.
 
On 21st May 1879 a sizeable British force with infantry and cavalry under the command of General Marshall began burial of all the British dead—except men from the 24th who would be buried by their own regiment under Colonel Glyn’s request. Bodies were quickly buried and covered with rocks.

On 20th, 23rd and 26th of June 1879 Black again returned to the field and buried the remains of the 24th dead. Again shallow graves were dug and stones piled upon the dead.
 
It would not be long in the African climate before the shallow graves and the contents became exposed. In September 1879 another expedition was tasked with clearing the skeletal debris that was exposing itself from the graves and again the effort was not sufficient to secure the graves and cairns. In early 1880 another force was tasked with clearing the site as best they could.
 
In 1883 the final attempt was made to once and for all to inter the graves properly. Deeper and wider graves were dug out of the earth, the bodies were exhumed from the old graves and reinterred. The cairns were again constructed over the graves where they now lie today. The cairns are regularly whitewashed and maintained by the appropriate South African authorities. Most of the 300 plus cairns have anywhere from 2 to 20 men buried underneath and the cairns on “The Nek” have the highest concentrate on the field.

Jamies website.

The Excavation and Re-interment of Mortal Remains from Cairn 27
Isandlwana Battlefield Zululand, South Africa.

By Len van Schalkwyk, Archaeologist,  KwaZulu Monuments Council
                                                                                      and
Michael Taylor,  O.i/c, Isandlwana Historical Reserve.

 

 


ABSTRACT

     The mortal remains of soldiers who fell at the Battle of Isandlwana on the 22nd January 1879 have since the first interment been repeatedly re-exposed by natural erosion processes on the site. This report summarises the activities of successive burial parties between January 1879 and March 1883 and later re-interments of mortal remains prior to the proclamation of the Isandlwana Historical Reserve in 1992.
     The excavation of a single cairn that was slumping into a donga as a result of headward stream-course erosion is described and recommendations are made for the future conservation of such cairns on the battle-site. These recommendations may be applicable at other historical sites in the region that are experiencing similar problems.


INTRODUCTION

     Over the four-year period, 1987 – 1991, numerous cases of blatant grave robbing were reported from the Isandlwana Battlefield. In each case the motive appeared to be an attempt to obtain military memorabilia for resale (Van Schalkwyk 1992). After each reported case KwaZulu Monuments Council (KNC) staff reinterred all exposed human remains and repacked the cairns. At the time of these re-interments the fragmented and weathered nature of the bone residues was commented upon.
     Subsequent police investigations located a number of hoards in the possession of relic collectors, both in South Africa and the United Kingdom. However, according to the collectors questioned, most of these hoards do not emanate from graves, but comprise surface finds from the battlefield. As such surface finds become inevitably more scarce, it would appear that sellers of memorabilia are now beginning to access burial sites in their attempt to satisfy market demands.
     In an effort to stamp out these practices and effect suitable control and management at the battlefield, the KwaZulu Government proclaimed the Isandlwana Historical Reserve in 1989 and KwaZulu Monuments Council (KMC) then appointed an officer-in-charge in 1992. Access onto the Reserve and battlefield is now controlled and visitors are accompanied over the site by resident KMC staff. A major refurbishment of all existing graves and memorials is currently in progress and the arresting of severe soil erosion on the battle-site is receiving attention. With these management strategies in place the status and preservation of the white-washed burial cairns now needs to be addressed.
     For some years now various parties have expressed concern over the stability and long term survival of those cairns on the battle site that are located within areas of active headward erosion and which are especially vulnerable to undercutting and subsequent collapse. We thus suggested that those cairns with the greatest potential for collapse be excavated, and the contents be re-interred on more stable ground close by. Critics of this, however, felt that further disturbance by excavation was in breach of the sanctity due to the site, as the cairns marked the places where men had fallen in battle. As custodians of the integrity of the site we were unable to reconcile ourselves with these sentiments.
     Further, the research potential of a large scale archaeological investigation of the entire battlefield has long been a point of debate, particularly in the light of the detailed results that were obtained from the archaeological investigations at the Battle of the Little Big Horn in the USA. If such a research project were to be initiated the burial cairns might well become a focus of investigation, and the nature of their contents would thus have to be ascertained. In order to obtain a better understanding of these cairns a study was undertaken by one of us (MT).

Background to the cairns at Isandlwana

1879 – 1883

     On the 14th March 1879, seven weeks after the battle, the first official visit to the battle-site took place. The party comprised Major W. Black, Commandant Cooper and Major J.G. Dartnell, accompanied by officers of the 24th of Foot, the Natal Native Contingent, and a party of the Natal Mounted Police. They had hardly arrived on the site when they came under fire and had to retire hastily to Rorke’s Drift, having accomplished nothing more than a quick glimpse of the scene of destruction and death (Knight 1992:124).
     On the 15th May, Black (recently promoted Lieutenant – Colonel) led a second party, this time from Fort Melvill, to Isandlwana. They stayed only twenty minutes, barely long enough to count and assess the condition of the wagons, before following the Fugitives’ Trail to the Buffalo River, where the body of Major Stuart Smith was found and covered with stones (Knight 1992:125).
      On the 21st May General Frederick Marshall, under orders from Lord Chelmsford, led the Cavalry Brigade to Isandlwana to bury the dead and to recover the wagons. While many bodies were identified, only those of the Volunteers and the Artillery were given a hasty burial. Colonel Glyn of the 24th had asked that his regiment be allowed to bury their own dead at some later date (Knight 1992:128). This task had to wait until 20th June 1879, when a party of the 2/24th under Lieutenant Colonel Black worked until the 26th June, digging shallow graves to receive the remains of their colleagues. Although stones were placed on the graves, it was not long before reports were received that further work would be required (Knight 1992:130).
     On instructions from General G.P. Colley, Brevet Major C.J. Bromhead camped at Isandlwana on the 19th September 1879. Bromhead claimed that his party had cleaned up the debris which was then burnt or buried, had reburied those bodies which had become partially exposed, and had buried those found still lying in the open. Three large stone cairns were built where the largest number of bodies had been found together (Knight 1992:130).
     Despite these efforts, reports of exposed bodies continued to be received. On the 20th February 1880 General Sir Garnet Wolseley instructed Lieutenant M. O’Connell of the 60th Rifles to attend to the battlefield. This party was at Isandlwana from 13 – 26 March and collected and buried all visible bones. The cairns which were built mark the spots where the bones, collected over a wide area, were buried, and not the places where individual men fell. Similarly, the bones of some soldiers who had been buried in dongas and watercourse and had become exposed, were reburied on higher ground (Knight 1992:130).
     Over the next two years visitors to Isandlwana repeatedly commented that human bones were still to be seen, and Alfred Boast, a civil servant, was put in charge of a party, instructed by the Lieutenant-Governor, to see that all the remains were properly interred. This was carried out between 12 February and 10 March 1883, and Boast submitted a report from Greytown on 13 March in which he described how 298 graves were dug, containing between 2 and 4 skeletons each. Cairns were built on the graves, and where possible, the identity of the fallen was marked (Paper 1078/1883, Natal Archives).

1993

     Following the 1992/93 rainy season one of us (MT) observed accelerated lateral erosion in a particular donga that threatened to collapse two cairns. One of the cairns was already beginning to slump down the donga slope and spilled bone fragments from the underlying burial pit were being exposed. The possibility of exposed human remains washing away downstream in full public view was sufficient motivation for us to recommend exhuming their contents and re-interring these in a more stable area nearby.
     The KwaZulu Monuments Council was requested to authorise these excavations, and the subsequent re-interment of any mortal remains. This was approved subject to the obtaining of a letter of No Objection from the Ministry of Interior and the requisite notification of interested and affected parties.

THE EXCAVATIONS

     The two cairns in question are located between two actively eroding dongas below the access road that traverses the battlefield. They are according to the Isandlwana Battlefield Site plan 10155/1 (dated 22.10.1986, Natal Provincial Administration Works Department) designated Cairn 27 (C27) and Cairn 28 (C28).
     The laying out of a 1x3m grid with 50cm intervals and the removal of all the rocks that made up the cairn preceded excavations. Once the top of the burial pit had been exposed the surrounding top soil was removed in 5cm spits. Ten centimetres below the surface bone fragments began to appear in the soil that was being sieved. The +- 10cm overlay of soil was then removed over an area of 1m square to expose the edge of the burial pit. We were then able to trace the lip of the pit to where it had begun to slump into the adjacent donga. The contents of the pit were then removed in further 10cm spits and sieved. These comprised a brown loam soil with visible bone fragments adhering to the matrix. The pit-edge was defined by an observable fall-off in bone residues and a more compact substrate. Spillage out of the confines of the pit was evident where it abutted with the donga wall. This comprised a lighter, grey soil matrix and a greater concentration of bone fragments than in the pit itself.
     At the 20cm level, two rocks, probably comprising a part of the original infill, were removed from the slump side of the pit. In removing the next 10cm spit we observed a marked drop-off in bone fragment frequency at the sieve. At 30cm below the surface the soil became hard and closely compacted and no further bone remains were evident. Spillage out of the side of the pit also ceased at this level. Excavations were then terminated on this sterile base and the sieve contents and sieved matrix were re-interred. The cairn was the re-erected on its original location.


THE FINDS

     In the 10cm surface overlay a metal screw and two iron nails were retrieved at the sieve. In the following spit various pieces of miscellaneous metal fragments were retrieved. However, because of their fragmented and distorted nature, positive identification was not possible. The only diagnostic objects were a soft-metal backing platform from a four-eyed button and a shrapnel piece.
     The majority of the bone material we retrieved at the sieve was in the size order of 5-15mm, much of it in fact falling through the 5mm mesh of the sieve in use. A few larger but adiagnostic pieces were also retrieved. The only identifiable fragments were a possibly piece of the articular process of a mandible, a phalange and a fragment of an indeterminable limb bone. No other artefacts or any other diagnostic human skeletal material was evident.


CONCLUSION

     Our desk study shows that the battlefield was visited by a number of burial parties in the four years post the battle. Many of the cairns visible at Isandlwana today are likely to be the results of Boast’s work, superimposed on and modifying the efforts of the earlier burial parties. It is likely that only those graves in the Colonial Cemetery mark the burials of known individuals, the others being the repositories of partial remains collected from the open, from earlier incomplete interment, and from the dongas. Most of the cairns cannot be seen as marking the place where a soldier fell.
     The fragmentary nature of the bone residues  is a consequence of their reported long exposure to the elements post the battle, and their successive re-interments. The soils in the region are known to be acidic and together with the former these have accelerated the natural processes of decay. The dearth of artefacts, the adiagnostic nature of the skeletal remains and the re-interment procedures that have occurred, collectively suggested that Boast’s cairns have limited archaeological value. They would thus not warrant focused attention in the event of a large scale archaeological investigation of the site. We conclude therefore, that as a management strategy, any future erosion threat to the cairns at the battlefield be countered by the following:
     Firstly, any slumping cairn should be stabilised in situ by the packing of further rocks around its base, and secondly, attempts should be made to stem the rate of erosion by recognised donga reclamation techniques. These means are probably justified at most other historical sites in the region that are experiencing similar problems. By these actions, the integrity and sanctity of the site can best be preserved.


REFERENCES

Knight, Ian. 1992. “Zulu. Isandlwana and Rorke’s Drift. 22nd January 1879”. London. Withdrow & Greene.

Van Schalkwyk L.O. 1992. A new relevance for old monuments: the Isandlwana Model. Paper presented at the Southern Africa Museums Association Conference. Durban.

Julian. Let me know if you ever write that book littlehand mentions. I could do with clearing my bookshelf.

A one stop shop on the Anglo Zulu War.

Drummer Boy 14 wrote:

They are both in Snooks book on RD.

All in Zulu Rising by Ian Knight also.
Agree with 24th; the likes of Ian Knight, David Jackson, Norman Holme have all quoted from primary resource material and these men are wholly trustworthy and reliable. Very few of us on here will ever, or will ever need to access primary source material. Leave that to the academics and aforementioned legends who have made careers and life works out of doing that.

24th
Thank you for the layman’s language. A full stop, capital letter and question mark in the original might have helped.
You wrote “The books most of us own on the Anglo Zulu War 1879 contain primary source accounts. So is it really necessary to go to London to see the resources that are all ready available in the books we purchase.”
Yes. Otherwise people will be quoting from Morris, Lloyd, Giese and their ilk.
A la folie ou pas du tout, to quote Pascal.

24th
The salient points of Black’s report in terms of this discussion are:
The Zulu dead had all been removed
The bodies of our poor brave soldiers showed where the fury of the enemy had overtaken them. They were all in and about the camp, or down the path the fugitives took; not a dozen could be in the whole surrounding of the camp, nor in the 'donga,' bearing out tiie testimony of survivors, who relate that while the soldiers held the donga they suffered no loss. The greatest number counted lying together within a very small compass was sixty-eighty and these were in the left rear of the lst/24th, near the officers' mess-tent. The majority were 24th men, but there were some of other arms as well.

Little hand
Access to London is/was not easy for me either. I manage/managed.
I don’t come on the forum to educate . I come on it to discuss. That can only be done from a basis of knowledge. I expect those who profess to offer opinions on the AZW to be able to sustain an argument backed up with evidence. On which subject I am still waiting for you to disprove my posting relating to Boast’s burial figures.

CTSG
I shall. On which subject, I’m having printing delays at the moment but expect to have something out and available during March. P.S. Welcome back.

Quote :

Thank you for the layman’s language. A full stop, capital letter and question mark in the original might have helped.

Julian. Its good to have you as a member on the forum. But please do-not go into teacher mode. You will have to take us for what we are.

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This is all I have on "Boast" if you have more, would appricate if you post.

Julian. Do you have anything else on Boast.

Part of Blacks report.

The greatest number counted lying together within a very small compass was sixty-eighty and these were in the left rear of the lst/24th, near the officers' mess-tent. The majority were 24th men, but there were some of other arms as well. As regards the state of the bodies, a subject of morbid but painful interest, they were in all conditions of horrible decay. Some were perfect skeletons; others that had not been stripped, or only partially so, were quite unapproachable, and the stench was sickening; with but fewexceptions, it was impossible to recognise any one, and the only officer that was seen was discovered by his clothes

So this could be evident to what Littlehand and Martin says. There could well have been a mixture of bodies in this area and not just Britsh/Coloinal.

So even under the largest cairns, where it's thought the last stands took place there are resins of Zulu's as well. This would give the impression that a British last stand did take place. There are just so many versions to these visits.

The burial of the dead and the preservation of the cairns
The battlefield was not revisited until 17 May but the burial party of the Dragoon Guards spent four days there from 21 to 24 May, exactly four months after the battle. Some bodies which had been disemboweled dried up but others had decomposed. Vultures, crows, hyenas and jackals had also attacked many of the bodies, large numbers of which were unrecognisable. In many cases the tunics had been removed by the Zulus making identification even more difficult. In some areas, British and Zulu dead were lying together and could not he identified separately. Because of the lack of time and tools, as well as the hardness of the ground, no graves were dug, but the bodies pulled together in heaps and stones piled over them. This gave the characteristic appearance of the battlefield covered by cairns instead of graves with headstones. It is not known if the cairns were whitewashed at this time but it appears very unlikely. It is known that attention was paid to the battlefield after the annexation of Zululand and the cairns were probablv whitewashed during the early 1900's. Later several regimental monuments were erected.

During 1928 just before the 50th anniversary, that part of the battlefield where most of the cairns were situated was fenced off and cairns outside this were not regularly cared for. As a result those on the remoter parts of the battlefield became indistinguishable from ordinary heaps of stones. During 1958 a graves curator, in ignorance, flattened many cairns to make them look like ordinary graves. This exposed some remains. The writer was requested to rebuild the cairns, and after studying all available old photographs and relying on his own memory, work was commenced. However, many of the grave-like structures made by the curator were simply covered with stones and are clearly recognisable as incompletely restored cairns. The opportunity was taken to search for neglected cairns. Some forty of these were found, carefully examined for remains, fully documented, photographed, and marked on a plan and rebuilt. These cairns include those out on the ridge where the British companies were stationed and along the route of the fugitives. In view of recent statements that very few British were killed at the advanced positions, it is interesting to note that buttons, boot protectors and bones were found when the neglected cairns were dismantled and documented. This is, of course, not evidence that the casualties at these positions were very heavy.

Quote :

A hypothesis was put forward based on the numbers of bodies in Boast's graves, on the basis that the numbers did not add up. I demonstrated that they do add up. I ask for that to be disproved (and I am perfectly happy if that can be shown) but I get no answer, just a distraction, which makes further discussion frustrating as the tack is changed again.

Where and who says the bodies don't add up.

"Haggard concludes his account of Isandlwana with the return of British troops to the site in May 1880 to bury the bodies of the slain. "Strange were the scenes that those saw whose task it was to lay them to rest. Here, hidden by the rank grass, in one heap behind the officers' tents, lay the bodies of some seventy men, who had made their last stand at this spot; lower down the hill lay sixty more.

Another band of about the same strength evidently had taken refuge among the rocks of the mountain, and defended themselves there till their ammunition was exhausted, and their ring broken by the assegai. All about the plain lay Englishmen and Zulus, as they had died in the dread struggle: - here side by side, amidst rusted rifles and bent assegais, here the bony arms still locked in the last hug of death, and yonder the soldier with the Zulu's assegai in what had been his heart.

One man was found, who, when his cartridges were spent, and his rifle was broken, had defended himself to the end with a tent-hammer that lay among his bones, and another was stretched beneath the precipice, from the crest of which he had been hurled."

Hi Littlehand .
I have the Boast report and have had it posted on the forum a couple of years ago . I will send the itemised graves sites to Graves1879 and hopefully he will post it for me as In have no idea how to do so . . It is a little difficult to read but a magnifying glass may help . You will see the 298 graves refers to all the graves starting from Isandlwana itself , all the way to the river , not 298 along the track / trail / drift .
cheers 90th.

Hi All

As requested by 90th

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Hi all

It's amazing what one can read on the forum right now! No last stand, the 80 th to Kambula and so on ...

It would take 2 or 3 more like Julian, to put the things right ...

Cheers

Pascal

Admin
Knuckles lightly rapped. Apologies rendered. No more teacher mode (and no more schoolboy mode, I hope, too).

Dave
"In some areas, British and Zulu dead were lying together and could not he identified separately."
The trouble with this report is that it is hoist by its own petard such that one cannot use it as a basis for saying there were no last stands.
First it says "in some areas" were bodies lying together that could not be identified separately, implying that - in other areas - there WERE bodies that could be identified separately.
Secondly
The statement is defeated by its own logic. If the bodies could "not be identified separately" how was the writer able to do so? In other words, how did HE know that they were mixed British and Zulus if he couldn't identify them? All, in fact, he saw was a heap of bodies with no identifying marks and ASSUMED they must be mixed British and Zulus!
They could just as well have been all British and Natal natives, and, since according to earlier visitors all the dead Zulus had been removed, they almost certainly were!

Hi Julian .
Thats a very valid point , indeed the dead zulu's may have certainly been the NNC as the Zulu themselves removed most of their dead , so it seems its a smattering of both types of zulu , the enemy and the allies , as no-one was there to remove the dead zulu's which were allied to the British side .
cheers 90th.

The 24th would be recognized by there jackets, boots, shirt-sleeves,socks and trousers.



Cheers

DB according to Blacks report that you posted it says " it was impossible to recognise any one, and the only officer that was seen was discovered by his clothes"

Recognize. This means identify who they were, put a name to them.

Quote :

They could just as well have been all British and Natal natives, and, since according to earlier visitors all the dead Zulus had been removed, they almost certainly were!

Now here's where the problems being. Julian Whybra states the above although it's not from a primary source or secondary source. But because Julian says it well! that's what happen then. Weldone Julian stick it in your new book.

He says all the Zulu dead had been removed.

Wilson Black

The Zulu dead had all been removed

Primary source.

DB14 re-read some of the previous posts. There a few that states there were dead Zulus among the British.

Julian could very well be correct.

Littlehand. Julian has not claimed that statement he made came from a primary or secondary source. It's what may have happen. Your out burst is quite outrageous.

If they could tell there were Zulus among British dead, then they could tell who was who to make that statment.

White bones and all that. I have an open mind as to wether or not they did remove all their dead, as they didn't really like touching dead bodies at all that, perhaps they just moved the wounded ones.

LH
Temper, temper! As you well know, no quotation marks were used; nowhere did I claim that this was a quotation.
It was an opinion based on the logic of the wording used in the primary source which you yourself quoted in an attempt to support your claim that there were no last stands. It does not support it on two counts; one cannot infer from it the meaning you desire it to have.
I shan't be putting it in any book, rest assured, as there is no need to refute something which didn't happen. That would be illogical.
P.S. I am still waiting for the rebuttal over the Boast figures jigsaw piece you tried to make fit your no-last-stands picture.

CTSG
Quite apart from several Zulu accounts which state that they removed their dead, there is the evidence of the anonymous wounded native waggon driver (recorded by Capt Symons, Unpublished ms account, 24th Regiment Museum) who saw them doing so in captured waggons whilst remaining hidden all night feigning death among the rocks.

It appears I read Boast's report wrong as 90th pointed out. I read it as 298 graves on the trail, didn't realise it was the camp as well.

Is it really true, for example, that 2nd Lt. ‘Dyson’s section [of the 1/24th] was overwhelmed at a very early stage’ of the battle? This view is based on observations of a particular burial cairn carried out by the late George Chadwick, apparently in the 1970s. Yet the exact position of this cairn cannot now be ascertained – that part of the battlefield having been heavily disturbed – which makes it difficult to locate its context within the broader course of the battle. Moreover, Mr Chadwick himself was clearly wary of drawing too many conclusions from this cairn, for while it did indeed contain remains consistent with British dead, he was careful to note that ‘This does not necessarily indicate heavy casualties at these points’. The only evidence from survivors’ sources is even less ambiguous; Captain Essex, who took the order to Dyson’s section to withdraw from the ridge, merely noted that the Zulus ‘rushed forward as soon as our men disappeared below the crest’ – a phrase which does not suggest any direct conflict. There is, moreover, a complete absence of direct Zulu evidence from any warrior who claimed to have attacked Dyson’s section on the ridge – despite intense rivalry among the Zulu amabutho to claim the honour of being the first to ‘stab’ the white men. Similarly, was a working party from the camp really overwhelmed on the road behind Isandlwana? If so, who were they? All the available evidence suggests that a fatigue party of the 1/24th had been working on the road in front of Isandlwana, not behind, on the morning of the battle, in preparation for the forthcoming advance – but was recalled before the action began. Nor were the column’s scant compliment of Engineers in much of a position to work on the road that day - Lt. MacDowell, No. 3 Column’s Engineer officer, had been at Mangeni with Lord Chelmsford before the battle, and had only returned to Isandlwana as the Zulu attack developed; he was supposedly seen handing out ammunition at the height of the fighting, and his body was found in the camp, not by the road.


Source: Knight.

Good discussion.

I was disscussing this thread with a few friends over a pint, and it was mentioned that the Zulus drove cattle into the camp at Insandlwana, I said this happen in the film Zulu, when a gate wasn't secured properly. But my mate is adamant cattle was used to push the British back, at Isandlwana is this true.

Nope.

The cattle were at the rear of the camp. Read Hamilton-Browne, he describes them in some detail being driven in from the rear.



Cheers

John. At the final stages of the battle some of the Zulu used cattle to mask their rush towards the tents.

"Lt. Harry Davies, recalled “about 40 (Zulu) here got into the camp by driving a lot of our oxen that had been out of camp before them.  We shot some of them.."

Commandant Hamilton-Browne saw the same movement,

“Good God!  What a sight it was.  By the road that runs between the hill and Kopje, came a huge mob of maddened cattle, followed by a dense swarm of Zulus."

Knight.

Littlehand. A large quantity of the bodies were between the camp and the Manzimnyamna stream behind.  But the largest concentration of bodies was found on the nek, between Isandlwana and Mahlabamkhosi (‘Black’s Koppie’) where, according to Zulu accounts the most furious of fighting had been.

Looking at the locations of the cains it would appear that hardly any soldiers were killed out on the firing line; but they would have began to take casualties as they fell back through the camp, and deminished quite quickly as they tried to make a stand on the nek, only to be forced into the valley directly behind Isandlwana. There is another large concentration of graves on the banks of the Manzimnyama, this is where a group of soldiers under the command of Lt. Edgar Anstey made their last stand.

Hi Dave.
I remember reading that the fatigue / work party repairing the road was indeed repairing the road in front of Isandlwana
for the advance , I'm fairly certain they werent repairing the road back to the drift , I think the pioneers may also been in this party or indeed they were the party doing the repairs .
cheers 90th.