Latest topics | » Royal Marine Light Infantry, ChathamToday at 7:57 pm by Petty Officer Tom » H.M.S. ForesterToday at 4:07 pm by johnex » Colonel Edward William Bray, 2nd/4th Regt.Yesterday at 8:49 pm by John Young » Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Yesterday at 10:53 am by Julian Whybra » Samuel PoppleYesterday at 8:43 am by STEPHEN JAMES » Studies in the Zulu War volume VI now availableSat Nov 09, 2024 6:38 pm by Julian Whybra » Colonel Charles Knight PearsonFri Nov 08, 2024 5:56 pm by LincolnJDH » Grave of Henry SpaldingThu Nov 07, 2024 8:10 pm by 1879graves » John West at KambulaThu Nov 07, 2024 5:25 pm by MKalny15 » Private Frederick Evans 2/24thSun Nov 03, 2024 8:12 pm by Dash » How to find medal entitlement CokerSun Nov 03, 2024 10:51 am by Kev T » Isandlwana Casualty - McCathie/McCarthySat Nov 02, 2024 1:40 pm by Julian Whybra » William Jones CommentFri Nov 01, 2024 6:07 pm by Eddie » Brother of Lt YoungFri Nov 01, 2024 5:13 pm by Eddie » Frederick Marsh - HMS TenedosFri Nov 01, 2024 9:48 am by lydenburg » Mr Spiers KIA iSandlwana ?Fri Nov 01, 2024 7:50 am by Julian Whybra » Isandhlwana unaccounted for casualtiesFri Nov 01, 2024 7:48 am by Julian Whybra » Thrupps report to Surgeon General Wolfies Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:32 pm by Julian Whybra » Absence of Vereker from Snook's BookFri Oct 25, 2024 10:59 pm by Julian Whybra » Another Actor related to the Degacher-Hitchcock familyMon Oct 21, 2024 1:07 pm by Stefaan » No. 799 George Williams and his son-in-law No. 243 Thomas NewmanSat Oct 19, 2024 12:36 pm by Dash » Alphonse de Neuville- Painting the Defence of Rorke's DriftFri Oct 18, 2024 8:34 am by Stefaan » Studies in the Zulu War volumesWed Oct 16, 2024 3:26 pm by Julian Whybra » Martini Henry carbine IC1 markingsMon Oct 14, 2024 10:48 pm by Parkerbloggs » James Conner 1879 claspMon Oct 14, 2024 7:12 pm by Kenny » 80th REG of Foot (Staffords)Sun Oct 13, 2024 9:07 pm by shadeswolf » Frontier Light Horse uniformSun Oct 13, 2024 8:12 pm by Schlaumeier » Gelsthorpe, G. 1374 Private 1/24th / Scott, Sidney W. 521 Private 1/24thSun Oct 13, 2024 1:00 pm by Dash » A Bullet BibleSat Oct 12, 2024 8:33 am by Julian Whybra » Brothers SearsFri Oct 11, 2024 7:17 pm by Eddie » Zulu War Medal MHS TamarFri Oct 11, 2024 3:48 pm by philip c » Ford Park Cemetery, Plymouth.Tue Oct 08, 2024 4:15 pm by rai » Shipping - transport in the AZWSun Oct 06, 2024 10:47 pm by Bill8183 » 1879 South Africa Medal named 1879 BARSun Oct 06, 2024 12:41 pm by Dash » A note on Captain Norris Edward Davey, Natal Volunteer Staff.Sun Oct 06, 2024 12:16 pm by Julian Whybra |
November 2024 | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri | Sat | Sun |
---|
| | | | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | | Calendar |
|
Top posting users this month | |
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. |
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address.
Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.
If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.
We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes.
There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site.
The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum.
The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. |
Fair Use Notice | Fair use notice.
This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner.
We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes.
We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website.
If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution. |
|
| Gabangaye - was he ubidied? | |
| | Author | Message |
---|
quint
Posts : 33 Join date : 2010-11-15
| Subject: Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:46 pm | |
| On the Wiki Isandlwana site it says that probably the last to fall at Isandlwana was Gabangaye, a amacHunu chief who was given over to the udibi boys to be killed by them. Grisly stuff. First time I have heard of this. Anyone shed any light on it?
|
| | | littlehand
Posts : 7076 Join date : 2009-04-24 Age : 56 Location : Down South.
| Subject: Re: Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:24 pm | |
| |
| | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4175 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:11 am | |
| Gabangaye kaPhakade of the amaCunu (i.e. the induna in Barry's coy) can be found in ZV. Lock & Quantrill provide modern-day oral history as the source to describe how he and his son Mbojana were killed by uDibi boys once taken prisoner. Note that this is NOT contemporary oral history collected at or close to the time and is therefore highly suspect. It may not be taken as fact. Littlehand has already provided you with the only contemporary reference to him at Isandhlwana given by Sikhota. |
| | | SRB1965
Posts : 1254 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
| Subject: Re: Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:48 am | |
| Hi, This link was posted on the forum, in response to a similar question/point, from myself, a few months ago [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.](sorry I forget by whom!) it has the full part of the section in BSQ that Littlehand has posted above. Not much more detail. I believe Muziwento/Umsweanto's father had fought at Isandlwana and he (Muziwento/Umsweanto) sneaked on to the field soon after the battle, for a look around....... Ta Sime |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:01 pm | |
| Hi Simon I think this is the section you were after. Its the basis of the quotes from L and Q. I would probably disagree with Julian and give it a bit more weight than he has. It is second hand but the whole article/book has a certain ring of truth about it.
There was present too Usikota,l1 brother of Cetshwayo(15); he saw the Zulu army coming up and cried, CO! Not for me! I'm off! I know those fellows over there. It is just "Coming, come' with them. They are not to be turned aside by any man, and here are we sitting still for all the world like a lot of turkeys!' Then he called to his brother, 'Away! let's away, Ungabangaye, let's make a run for it!' Said Ungabangaye, 'Oh stop a moment just till I see them tackled by the white men!' 'O!' cried Usikota, 'A pleasant stay to you!' He seized his horse and bolted. He escaped through the 'neck,' before the 'impi' encircled the [campV2 Up came the Zulu army and made an end of Ungabangaye. |
| | | SRB1965
Posts : 1254 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
| Subject: Re: Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:50 pm | |
| Thanks Frank
90th is winging his was back from Heathrow to Australia, at the moment...
Cheers
Sime |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:38 pm | |
| |
| | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4175 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:28 pm | |
| Yes, Frank, it does 'sound' right but so did Mpitimpipiti and Zabange (in parts). Weight doesn't come into it. You and I have discussed oral history before, its merits and demerits...but at 140 years and no secondary corroboration from someone like Sigcwelegcwele it can only be taken for what it is (despite the renowned oral historical abilities of the Zulu).
|
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:54 pm | |
| Hi Julian, I don't think the comparison with Zabange is fair, as we both know that was a modern composition whereas the Zulu Boy is well dated. Again I would agree to disagree in that it cant be fully discounted because there is no corroboration. If we were to travel that route a great amount of the JS chronicles would have to follow suite, and that as we know is an invaluable second hand or 'as told to' source. So I would still say it has weight as a record of the times just as much as JS recorded conversations and memories. The whole document just conjures up Zulu life, running away from Gogo, the beatings from the elder, the absolute naughtiness of a young boy. It works for me on many levels but I do take your point. |
| | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4175 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:07 pm | |
| Frank, well, maybe not Zabange though that too now is nearly 50 years old. The John Stuart Archive has age and a scholarly approach on its side and is a different kettle of fish entirely to how, where and when the Gabangaye anecdote (as per L&Q) was obtained...and of course the JSA often corroborates by cross-referencing one Zulu with another. |
| | | WeekendWarrior
Posts : 272 Join date : 2017-07-21 Location : San Diego, CA
| Subject: Re: Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:49 am | |
| There is another, more credible piece of evidence in Storm and Sunshine in South Africa. Gabangaye was described as older and overweight, having a hard time staying mounted and keeping up during the flight. Seeing his men refused to leave him, he sat down on a rock and refused to move so they could get away. The incident is presented in a pathetic light but I find it rather noble and heroic. Prince Sikhota also has an anecdote in which he says he saw the way things were headed, decided to cut slingload on the crumbling operation, and suggested Gabangaye do the same. The latter refused, saying he wished to see how his men fought. |
| | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4175 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:29 am | |
| And the sources for the two remarks given in Storm and Sunshine are...? |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:32 am | |
| |
| | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4175 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:43 pm | |
| Well, written by Rosamond Southey obviously in 1910...but... |
| | | | Gabangaye - was he ubidied? | |
|
| Permissions in this forum: | You cannot reply to topics in this forum
| |
| |
| |