Photo of burial party and soldier's remains at Isandlwana, can I post?

Posts : 65 Join date : 2011-12-15

Hi all, ADMIN in particular

I have a photograph from killie campbell, a low resolution close up of a burial party with picks at Isandlwana.
I have not seen this picture published previously, it is entitled 'burial party isandlwana' and I have noticed what seems to be the remains of a dead soldier (light shirt/dark trousers, against small rocks) at the feet of the man on the right.
It mentions nothing of the presence of a corpse and my eyes may be decieving me but I think not.

I have asked KC for a higher resolution copy and permission to publish it in full when it comes and they have said that my request has been passed to the department which deals with such things and I can expect a reply mid january 2012.

The KC site says images can be used for study and research purposes so long as the proper URL etc are attached and without further permissions and as this is a research/study site I presume it is safe to post the smaller image here prior to permission granted for the higher resolution image.
ADMIN, if the photo is as I see it, it is obviously of a morbid though not grotesque nature and so I thought it best to ask your permission first.
If you permit, I'll post the openly available image now and when clearance comes through from KC, I'll post the Higher resolution one.

Cheers

Matt

Hi Matt
AS far as im aware there were only three photos taken at isandlwana by Frederick Lloyd in May 1879. One is of a single soldier leaning on a shovel in the waggon park. The second and third are more long distance looking over the neck, one of which shows cavalry in the middle distance.

regards

Posts : 947 Join date : 2011-10-21 Location : Algoa Bay

Hi Matthew83,

I would be very happy for you to publish the Isandlwana burial party picture/s which you obtained from KCM.
Publishing the picture/s should not upset any sensitivities as I do not think it will be possible for anyone to be identified in it.
According to my records it took some time weeks, even months before any interments took place on the battlefields. In this regard the Natal Mounted Police where there first, doing what's right for their men who died there, but they were expressly forbidden from burying any of the 24th's kia's, as the Regiment wanted to do it themselves.
This may have been because they needed to positively identify as many men as they could before burial.

barry.

Posts : 65 Join date : 2011-12-15

Springbok and Barry, I have sent you the image via pm, will hold off from posting it openly until Admin clears it.

Cheers

Matt

Posts : 187 Join date : 2010-02-04

matthew83 wrote:: Springbok and Barry, I have sent you the image via pm, will hold off from posting it openly until Admin clears it.

Cheers

Matt

Matt

Any chance I could grab a copy too please?

cheers

Posts : 65 Join date : 2011-12-15

sent cisco

Cheers

Matt

Posts : 187 Join date : 2010-02-04

Thank you very much - much appreciated Idea

Posts : 65 Join date : 2011-12-15

Cisco,

What do you reckon, It is in my opinion unmistakable, I'm surprised it hasn't been more widely published.

Cheers

Matt

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27

Could i get a copy??

Cheers
DB14

Posts : 65 Join date : 2011-12-15

DB14.

Sent

Cheers

Matt

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27

I can see a body but it looks like a shield is behind him??

Also the body looks tiny, could be a drummer boy Shocked

Cheers
DB14

Posts : 65 Join date : 2011-12-15

Hi DB14,

Yes, I too noticed the shield, a white one.
He is small, could be a drummer boy but likely a normal ranker whose remains have decomposed somewhat over the months that passed before the burial parties arrived, thereby making him appear smaller.

Who knows?

Cheers

Matt

Posts : 947 Join date : 2011-10-21 Location : Algoa Bay

Hi Matthew83

Thanks for pm giving web link to picture of burial party. It appears to be of unusual clarity for the time and I think many in this forum will have interest in it.

regards,

barry

Posts : 272 Join date : 2010-08-13

Hi Matt, Anyway you could send me the image via pm. Thanks in advance. Isandula

Matt post away. Idea

Posts : 65 Join date : 2011-12-15

Cheers Admin,

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

The image is stored at the killie campbell collection and is numbered c58-034.
It can be accessed by members of the KC website at.....

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

As per their instructions, it may only be shared as is, provided the direct url is posted.
I'll post a clearer and larger pic when I have it cleared by the KC staff.

Cheers

Matt

Posts : 310 Join date : 2011-10-18 Location : Cornwall

This photo appears in Ian Knight's book 'Nothing Remains But to Fight' & the opinion of the author is that it was probably taken at Pinetown at the end of the war.

Regards,

Tim

Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 62 Location : UK

Perhaps a show photo. Glad to see there is no signs of the Zulu custom of disembowelling.

Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02

The picture in Ian Knight's book quite clearly shows that the two "bodies" are Zulus, each with a convenient spear tucked under the arm ! Certainly a staged photograph.

Steve

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27

I think it was RD the day after in Knights photo

Cheers

Matt
Ive replied privatly.

Regards

Posts : 705 Join date : 2012-05-05

Can't see why a burial party would have a photo like this taken? Almost like a trophy photo! $Don\'t agree$

Guest

if its of historical significance, then why not?

Guest

will there be more information
re this!.

i beleive this photo was aken in pine town at the end of the war and is a a trophy photo i.e. staged

It is clearly a staged photograph as already mentioned.

The so-called burial party is under the command of Captain Alfred Godwin-Austen, 2nd/24th, wearing the 1878 star helmet plate on his helmet. Some other interesting uniform and equipment detail appears in the photograph: the Colour-Sergeant's insignia on the soldier 4th from the left; the helmet covers worn by two officers and at least one other-rank; the Sergeant-Instructor of Musketry wearing a pistol and sword and the kneeling other-rank wearing the older pattern ammunition pouch with curved edge.

For the best printed version of the photograph see page 110 of Nothing Remains But to Fight.

Given that Alfred's clasp for 1879 was disallowed it is obvious that it taken nowhere near any fighting.

John Y.

Posts : 947 Join date : 2011-10-21 Location : Algoa Bay

Hi All,
What bothers me about this midday shot of a supposed Isandlwana burial is;

1) the shot was taken in late summer time
2) the terrain shown in the background is not that of the general Isandlwana area, however it could be down the trail.
3) the luxuriant flora depicted in general in the background, but more particularly, and the big give away, the presence there of the "Natal banana"or strelitzia nicolai (Crane flower), a tree which is NOT found at the higher altitudes ( ie above 3000 feet), or in the Thornveld., but is endemic in the lower altitude riverine and coastal dune forests throughout the region. No Thornveld acacia are visible in the background either.

So, based on all of the above Isandlwana does not appear to be the place where this shot was taken and it is probably a staged photo .

regards

barry

PS : Strelitzia nicolai is indeed very common around Pinetown

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