Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face!

Given the debate over Isandula's recent photograph, I thought I'd throw this one into the mix.

I have my own idea as to who the subject of the photograph is, but I welcome anyone else's input.

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Unidentified officer, believed to be 24th Regiment.
John Young Collection

The photograph was taken by T. Cranfield, 115 Grafton St., Dublin. Thomas Cranfield's studio had the endorsement Photographer & publisher to the Queen in Ireland, his was the studio where the rich and famous went to. A number of his prints are in well-known national collections.

In another place it was concluded that the photograph was of Captain Frederick Carrington, 1st/24th, but I was never happy with that conclusion. Having examined photographs of Carrington taken in South Africa circa 1877 held at Brecon, I am adamant it is not Carrington, the hair-line and ears don't match. Added to this I believe Carrington remained in South Africa after 1879, he was apparently in the U.K. by January 1883.

However, the sitter in this photograph had his photograph taken prior to the 1881 Dress Regulations which added a shoulder strap (epaulette) to the Patrol Jacket. On closer examination there is also the outline of a medal ribbon on left breast.

As I say I believe I know who the officer is, but I would welcome anyone else's opinion.

JY

Posts : 615 Join date : 2013-05-07 Location : Brecon

John

A young Carrington.

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

Kenny wrote:: John

A young Carrington.

Mister Young,
Maybe Wardell?

Hi John.
I'll have a stab , is it Capt J.J.Harvey 2 / 24th ? .
Cheers 90th.

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

[quote="John Young"]Given the debate over Isandula's recent photograph, I thought I'd throw this one into the mix.

I have my own idea as to who the subject of the photograph is, but I welcome anyone else's input.
.
Bonjour Mister Young,

For you, who is this man?
regard

Frédéric

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

Bonsoir Mister Young,

For me he is not:Weallens, Browne, Anstey, Daly, Degacher x2, Godwin Austen x 2, Melvill, Pulleine, Pullen, Bloomfield, Coghill, Porteous, Cavaye, Atkinson, Dyer, Bormhead x2, Griffith, White, Much, Logan, Roche, Spring, D. Williams, Mainwaring, Dunbar, Black, Chamberlin, Harvey, Heaton, Bannister, Curll, Tongue, Mostyn, Rainforth, Younghusband, Hodson, Pope, Roche, Phipps, Penn Symons, Sudgen, Dyson, Glyn, Church and Curll.

I don't think he is Upcher.
You say he is not Carrington.
"Isundula", we need your help, where are you?

Cheers

Frédéric

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

He's not Reginald Campbell, Brander, William Franklin and Glennie...
Personnaly, i don't know who is he...
Comme on dit en France, "je donne ma langue au chat"! (in English:" i give my tongue to the cat"!)

Cheers

Frédéric

Frédéric,

How about this chap?

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John Young Collection

Like the sitter in the Dublin photograph, he was in Ireland in 1880, he had a single medal ribbon at the time.

If you look at the mystery photo' he has an Imperial the remnants of a beard, his hair shorter than usual as he has been on campaign. Same jowl, as I say just my thoughts.

Any Photoshop experts who can trim out his sideburns?

JY

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

Mister Young,

You are a hard man...
Your man is a survivor a the zulu war.
(...) in 1880, he had a single medal ribbon at the time".

Your chap is not Edward Browne.
BROWNE doesn'nt looks like him and BROWNE was awarded the VC at Pinetown camp on 22/08/1879 (before 1880).

I will search information on Bromhead brother ("same jowl" / "sideburns") and Symons.
A bientôt.

Frédéric

JY[/quote]

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Possible!

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

Not Clements (served in South africa 1875-1881);
Not Moffat (only one medal in his career);
Not Symons (served in India in 1880);
Not Brander (served in South Africa 1/3/1879-19/9/1879 -retired 7/7/1880) / not the "same face";
Not Connolly (only one medal in his career);
Not Godfrey (only one medal in his career);
Not Halliday (only one medal in his career);
Not Birch (only one medal in his career);
Not Halliday (only one medal in his career);
Not LLyod (only one medal in his career);
Not Logan (retired 5/2/1879);
Not Much (only one medal in his career);
Not Rainforth (return dated 3/4/1881 he is recorded as residing at Brecon );
Not Spring (only one medal in his career);
Not Tongue (only one medal in his career);
Not Williams John (only one medal in his career / exchanged to 1st Bn West India Regiment 25/5/1880);
Not Yourstoun (only one medal in his career);
Not Banister (only one medal in his career);
Not Caldwell (only one medal in his career);
Not Chamberlin (only one medal in his career);
Not Church (only one medal in his career / retired 7/7/1880);
Not Dobre (only one medal in his career);
Not Dolben (only one medal in his career);
Not Glennie (only one medal in his career);
Not Mahoney (only one medal in his career);
Not Williams herbert (only one medal in his career);

Your chap is one of them: Moore-Harper, Worlledge, Trower, Supplice, Smyly, O'Donnel, Armitage, d'Aguilar, Moore, Upcher, Campbell, Heaton, Morshead, Palmes, Paton, Harvey, Godwin-Austen Alfred, Hare, Mainwaring, Dunbar, Degacher Henry, Bromhead Charles, Phipps, Curll, Roche, Sugden, Weallens, Scott-Kerr).
Only 28 possibilities!!!!, Cool!!! Idea

In this list, i will research who were in Ireland in 1880.

Cheers.

Frédéric

Posts : 615 Join date : 2013-05-07 Location : Brecon

You can add a further name - Harrisson. There is also John Tigar and John Tompkins.

Subject: images Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:05 am

Frederic.

The second picture in LH's post looks very much like Bromhead, is it his brother?

Salute

Guest

Hmmm, bromhead Suspect

looking at the cricket
photo's and earlier.. Suspect

. unless JY is
teasing. xhosa

Guest

Charles.

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

Mr M. Cooper wrote:: Frederic.

The second picture in LH's post looks very much like Bromhead, is it his brother?

Martin,
In thé second photo, it's Gonville Bromhead and not his brother Charles.
Cheers
Frédéric

Subject: images Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:32 am

Thanks Frederic.

I thought it looked like him.

Salute

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

Kenny wrote:: You can add a further name - Harrisson. There is also John Tigar and John Tompkins.

Thanks Kenny,
Just 31 possibilities

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

Mr M. Cooper wrote:: Thanks Frederic.

I thought it looked like him.

Martin,
YOU can see under thé 2nd photo, thé name Gonville.
YOU can find a photo of Charles Bromhead in thé " silver" book (lan knight) p. 128.
Cheers.
Frédéric

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

littlehand wrote:: [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Possible!

For me, not the same eyes, not the same nose.
Cheers

Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02

Out of left field I know, but this is who came to my mind.

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Not 24th but KRRC. Redvers Buller.

Steve

Guest

rusteze, no way ' reevers ' Neutral

No, it's not him!

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

Bonsoir Mister Young,
Do your chap win an ashanti medal?
Cheers
Frédéric

Posts : 1603 Join date : 2009-09-21

littlehand wrote:: [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Possible!

Now, the muttons have gone, I would same, one of the same!

Guest

yeah, chin, nose, centre parting
i reckon your right. xhosa

Frédéric,

No I believe it to be the ribbon of the Victoria Cross.

Regards,

JY

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

John Young wrote:: Frédéric,

No I believe it to be the ribbon of the Victoria Cross.

Regards,
L

JY

Mister Young,
Thanks for jour answer.
Lord Gifford VC was not in the 24th in 1880.
If YOU think your chap is GONVILLE Bromhead it's a Big surprise for me!!!
Cheers
Frédéric

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

]
From memory G. Bromhead was in Ireland in 1880(Queen VICTORIA invitation /fish)

Frédéric,

The penny has dropped...

JY

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

John Young wrote:: Frédéric,

The penny has dropped...

JY

Yes...
Thank YOU for this exercice, my brain is tired. Very Happy

Gonville...i have never thought at him...
But we have don't answer to your initial question!
Some members think as you that your chap is effectively G. Bromhead
Have YOU got a little doubt or a Big doubt?
Cheers

Frédéric,

No I was always happy that it was Gonville Bromhead, however, others held the belief it was Frederick Carrington. I could never see that myself, as the shape of the face didn't quite fit.

Regards,

JY

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Not so sure now?

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

Not so sure now?[/quote]

The photo was taken in Ireland in 1880 (John Young)
It seems that Carrington was not in Ireland in 1880.
Carrington: commanded transvaal volunteers against sekukini in 1878_79, and left wing cape mounted rifles 1879-83.
Source:"The historical records of the 24th Régiment (...)" By Paton, Glennie,Symons.
Cheers

Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02

Can't see GB at all. Neck is too short and eyes too far apart. Why do we think he is 24th?
Steve

Posts : 2593 Join date : 2009-04-24

"Bromhead was posted to Gibraltar in 1880 and in August was dispatched to India where he remained until March 1881"

Need to know when in 1880 the photo was taken.

Guest

Bang on..Gonville was handsome.
Fred looked like a camel.bless.
agree

xhosa

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

xhosa2000 wrote:: Bang on..Gonville was handsome.
Fred looked like a camel.bless.
xhosa

Posts : 2308 Join date : 2010-07-02 Age : 44

Somewhere on the forum there is a photograph of a young Bromhead, in a photo of either a football team or cricket. That might be a good comparison.

Guest

yes. but if you remember the famous
photo of him wearing the peaked
forage cap, with the 24th numeral.
his face stayed constant. its him.

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