Latest topics | » THE DISTINGUISHED CONDUCT MEDAL![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Sep 05, 2024 11:16 pm by Julian Whybra » 61451 John Evans. Able Seaman.![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Sep 04, 2024 5:15 pm by Matthew Turl » 9312 Sapper H Cuthbert 5th Field Coy RE![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Sep 04, 2024 11:53 am by Julian Whybra » Who’s who in this photo?![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Tue Sep 03, 2024 12:44 pm by ianwood » Sir Robert William Jackson ![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:24 am by Julian Whybra » Memorial to Wolseley![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Sep 01, 2024 8:47 pm by John Young » Lieutenant & Adjutant Spencer Frederick Chichester, 2nd 21st![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Sep 01, 2024 7:52 pm by Rory Reynolds » Last of the 24th at Isandhlwana![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Sep 01, 2024 7:51 am by Julian Whybra » On this day 28th August, 1879![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Sep 01, 2024 7:28 am by Julian Whybra » Alfred Ducat - N.N.C. Help with plotting his career![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Aug 29, 2024 6:58 pm by Rory Reynolds » Corporal James Frowen Williams F Company. ![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Aug 29, 2024 8:46 am by Julian Whybra » Army Pay Department Personnel![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Aug 25, 2024 11:51 pm by Julian Whybra » Baron Von Steitencron![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Aug 25, 2024 10:32 am by Julian Whybra » Troop Despatch ![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sat Aug 24, 2024 10:15 pm by Eddie » Private 35/1430 James Priddle 1/13th Regiment![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sat Aug 24, 2024 8:09 am by Roobie257 » Zulu powder horn![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Fri Aug 23, 2024 5:22 pm by Rob D » Telescope v. field glasses![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Fri Aug 23, 2024 7:07 am by Julian Whybra » A Hungarian soldier in the Zulu War (?)![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Aug 21, 2024 5:14 am by 90th » 90th foot sgt T. Collins 214![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Tue Aug 20, 2024 3:04 pm by johnman » Zulu "Corps"![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Tue Aug 20, 2024 11:43 am by Hobbes » amaKwenke amabutho![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Tue Aug 20, 2024 11:23 am by Hobbes » A story regarding Younghusband's charge. Hearsay or a possibility? ![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Aug 18, 2024 5:48 pm by Danny1960 » Hill of the Sphinx for sale open to offers![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sat Aug 17, 2024 6:44 pm by ciroferrara » Information help please ![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Fri Aug 16, 2024 4:44 pm by Roobie257 » Capt. Geo. Shepstone![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Tue Aug 13, 2024 4:14 pm by Julian Whybra » Thomas William george 58th regiment 1880’s SA![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Tue Aug 13, 2024 12:05 pm by Alstar » Private John Scott 24th Regiment a fugitive at large![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Aug 11, 2024 7:50 pm by Julian Whybra » Sergt. Woods N.N.C.![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Fri Aug 09, 2024 4:41 pm by Julian Whybra » Who led the Naval Brigade at Gingindlovu ?![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Aug 08, 2024 9:32 pm by Herbert West » Herbert's Zulu war models![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Aug 08, 2024 7:06 pm by Herbert West » Studies in the Zulu War volumes![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Aug 07, 2024 2:31 pm by Julian Whybra » 80th Foot Information Request![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Tue Aug 06, 2024 6:28 pm by Bill8183 » Henderson and the NNH at Rorke's Drift ![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Mon Aug 05, 2024 7:53 pm by SRB1965 » Hamilton Browne's birthday![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Mon Aug 05, 2024 2:41 pm by Julian Whybra » 4,000 registered members.![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Aug 04, 2024 6:21 pm by Julian Whybra |
September 2024 | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri | Sat | Sun |
---|
| | | | | | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | | | | | | | Calendar |
|
Top posting users this month | |
New topics | » Memorial to Wolseley![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Sep 01, 2024 8:47 pm by John Young » On this day 28th August, 1879![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Aug 28, 2024 10:37 am by John Young » Alfred Ducat - N.N.C. Help with plotting his career![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Mon Aug 26, 2024 1:34 pm by Rory Reynolds » Zulu powder horn![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Fri Aug 23, 2024 5:22 pm by Rob D » Troop Despatch ![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Aug 22, 2024 12:18 am by Eddie » Who’s who in this photo?![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Tue Aug 20, 2024 3:53 am by Danny1960 » Hill of the Sphinx for sale open to offers![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sat Aug 17, 2024 6:44 pm by ciroferrara » Information help please ![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Aug 15, 2024 7:40 pm by Roobie257 » amaKwenke amabutho![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Aug 15, 2024 6:54 pm by Julian Whybra |
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. |
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address.
Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.
If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.
We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes.
There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site.
The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum.
The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. |
Fair Use Notice | Fair use notice.
This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner.
We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes.
We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website.
If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution. |
| | Seaman Ainsley | |
| | Author | Message |
---|
SRB1965
![SRB1965](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/2457-70.png)
Posts : 1235 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Seaman Ainsley Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:25 am | |
| Hi Almost everybody (with an interest into Isandlwana) has read of the death of Seaman Ainsley....back against a wheel, hacking and slashing at the Zulus, cussing and swearing like a sailor.
But where did the story come from?
Was the event mentioned in a Zulu account?
Cheers
Simon
|
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Drummer Boy 14
![Drummer Boy 14](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/580-5.jpg)
Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27
![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Seaman Ainsley Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:39 pm | |
| I know it is not relevant to what you are referring to but according to Milne Ainsley's body was recognized the morning of the 23rd when several men went out to search the camp. His pockets had been searched through with several photos left on the floor that Milne took. I have heard this story many times and would love to know the source Cheers Sam |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Petty Officer Tom
![Petty Officer Tom](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/2389-79.gif)
Posts : 363 Join date : 2017-02-05 Location : Texas, U.S.A.
![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Seaman Ainsley Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:31 pm | |
| Simon,
I, too, have been interested in the source of the story surrounding the death of William Henry Aynsley, Signalman 2nd Class, of H.M.S. Active. After several years of research I have failed to come across any first person accounts, but I have found several accounts that were written shortly afterwards.
Gunner John Carroll, Royal Marine Artillery, who was one of HMS Active’s marines at Fort Eshowe, upon hearing of the loss of Aynsley, wrote in his diary on 1 February 1879 “one of the Actives men named Ainsly, a servant of lieut. Milne who is aide de camp to the general has been killed, six Zulu’s lying around his body with the marks of cutlass wounds.”
An article in the Glasgow Herald newspaper, March 7, 1879 quoting an extract from a private letter sent from Maritzburg, gave the following account from the disaster on January 22. “An old man, owner of some of the waggons, concealed himself amongst the packages in one of his waggons, and saw the fight. He describes the desperate way our men fought back to back until they were assegaied. He says that a sailor drew his cutlass, rushed among the Zulus, and killed five, before a man crept behind him and stabbed him.” I have a few problems with this account. I would think that Aynsley would have to have been killed before the fugitives fled the camp in order for the “old man” to survive the battle. The Zulus went through all the wagons looking for things to loot.
On 28 March 1879 Colonel Stanley, the Secretary of State for War, speaking in the House of Commons during debates on the Zulu War, stated “I will take another case, the facts of which can be vouched for by more than one person. In the fatal disaster at Isandlana two pathetic sights were seen. A blue-jacket, the servant of Lieutenant Milne, of the Navy, who was fighting against any odds, got his back to a waggon and kept off his opponents, laughing the whole time as if he were making a joke of the matter. I am sorry to say that that gallant man met with the common fate.” I would like to know who Colonel Stanley was referring to when he said “vouched for by more than one person.”
While delivering a paper on Naval Brigades to the Royal United Service Institution in 1882 Captain Fletcher Campbell, who commanded the Naval Brigade during the Zulu War made a reference to Signalman Aynsley. “A young signalman of the ‘Active’ defended himself with one (a sword-bayonet), so I have been told, at Isandula, killing four Zulus before being himself assegaied in the back by a savage who crept under the wagon against which he was standing.”
Sam,
Lt Nathaniel Newman-Davis of the Buffs, who was serving with the Mounted Infantry, came across Aynsley’s body. Newham-Davis took a number of personal items, including photographs, from the body, which he gave to Lieutenant Milne to return to Aynsley’s family. Newman-Davis also took Aynsley's cutlass, which he kept as a souvenir. Newmam-Davis later told the story about the cutlass to a boy's paper, “Chums,” around 1900.
Tom |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Petty Officer Tom
![Petty Officer Tom](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/2389-79.gif)
Posts : 363 Join date : 2017-02-05 Location : Texas, U.S.A.
![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Seaman Ainsley Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:15 pm | |
| I forgot to add one more source.
There is a footnote in “The Royal Navy: A history from the Earliest Times to the Present,” Volume 7, by Sir William Laird Clowes, London, 1903 that contains the following: “The only representative of the Navy present at Isandhlwana was William Aynsley, a signalman belonging to the Active. He was seen “his back against a waggon wheel keeping the Zulus at bay with his cutlass but a Zulu crept up behind him and stabbed him through the spokes.” Hallam Parr: ‘Sketch of the Kaffir and Zulu Wars.’”
If anyone has a copy of Captain Henry Hallam Parr’s “Sketch of the Kaffir and Zulu Wars” maybe they can enlighten us.
Tom |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Frank Allewell
![Frank Allewell](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/32-19.jpg)
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Seaman Ainsley Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:27 am | |
| Hi POT HP's comments. page 221, exactly as you have posted. There are no footnotes or attributions. What I find interesting is his comment that Aynsley was 'seen'. Considering how late this incident would have taken place I would assume that it could only have been a Zulu testimony or someone who left the battle very late on. Possibly that would reduce the number of accounts to search. Cheers |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | SRB1965
![SRB1965](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/2457-70.png)
Posts : 1235 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Seaman Ainsley Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:30 am | |
| It does tend to be (to me) a bit of Victorian propaganda - a cunning native overcoming a powerful foe by being sneaky (a bit like the Viking holding the bridge at Stamford Bridge being humbugged by a Saxon in a swill tub)
I am not questioning the basic event but it does seem that there is too much detail.
I am inclined to think that it was one of those stories that although based on fact, went through the Army/Navy and as far as Parliament - a little like the 'Angel' of Mons or the Crucified Canadian in WWI.
I would assume that the earliest (written) account (from the Marine on the Active) would have been a bit partisan - giving 6 killed Zulus....
Maybe we'll never find the source....oh well...
Cheers
sime
|
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Drummer Boy 14
![Drummer Boy 14](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/580-5.jpg)
Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27
![Seaman Ainsley Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Seaman Ainsley Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:08 am | |
| Hi POT Thanks for the information If he was found with his Cutlass and several dead Zulu's around him it is possible people just presumed what occurred and this spiralled into the current story. Cheers Sam |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | | Seaman Ainsley | |
|
Similar topics | ![+](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) |
|
| Permissions in this forum: | You cannot reply to topics in this forum
| |
| |
| |