WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu. Lieutenant John Chard: The army doesn't like more than one disaster in a day. Bromhead: Looks bad in the newspapers and upsets civilians at their breakfast.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  Latest imagesLatest images  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Royal Marine Light Infantry, Chatham
Skeleton & rope? EmptyToday at 7:57 pm by Petty Officer Tom

» H.M.S. Forester
Skeleton & rope? EmptyToday at 4:07 pm by johnex

» Colonel Edward William Bray, 2nd/4th Regt.
Skeleton & rope? EmptyYesterday at 8:49 pm by John Young

» Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home
Skeleton & rope? EmptyYesterday at 10:53 am by Julian Whybra

» Samuel Popple
Skeleton & rope? EmptyYesterday at 8:43 am by STEPHEN JAMES

» Studies in the Zulu War volume VI now available
Skeleton & rope? EmptySat Nov 09, 2024 6:38 pm by Julian Whybra

» Colonel Charles Knight Pearson
Skeleton & rope? EmptyFri Nov 08, 2024 5:56 pm by LincolnJDH

» Grave of Henry Spalding
Skeleton & rope? EmptyThu Nov 07, 2024 8:10 pm by 1879graves

» John West at Kambula
Skeleton & rope? EmptyThu Nov 07, 2024 5:25 pm by MKalny15

» Private Frederick Evans 2/24th
Skeleton & rope? EmptySun Nov 03, 2024 8:12 pm by Dash

» How to find medal entitlement Coker
Skeleton & rope? EmptySun Nov 03, 2024 10:51 am by Kev T

» Isandlwana Casualty - McCathie/McCarthy
Skeleton & rope? EmptySat Nov 02, 2024 1:40 pm by Julian Whybra

» William Jones Comment
Skeleton & rope? EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 6:07 pm by Eddie

» Brother of Lt Young
Skeleton & rope? EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 5:13 pm by Eddie

» Frederick Marsh - HMS Tenedos
Skeleton & rope? EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 9:48 am by lydenburg

» Mr Spiers KIA iSandlwana ?
Skeleton & rope? EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 7:50 am by Julian Whybra

» Isandhlwana unaccounted for casualties
Skeleton & rope? EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 7:48 am by Julian Whybra

» Thrupps report to Surgeon General Wolfies
Skeleton & rope? EmptyThu Oct 31, 2024 12:32 pm by Julian Whybra

» Absence of Vereker from Snook's Book
Skeleton & rope? EmptyFri Oct 25, 2024 10:59 pm by Julian Whybra

» Another Actor related to the Degacher-Hitchcock family
Skeleton & rope? EmptyMon Oct 21, 2024 1:07 pm by Stefaan

» No. 799 George Williams and his son-in-law No. 243 Thomas Newman
Skeleton & rope? EmptySat Oct 19, 2024 12:36 pm by Dash

» Alphonse de Neuville- Painting the Defence of Rorke's Drift
Skeleton & rope? EmptyFri Oct 18, 2024 8:34 am by Stefaan

» Studies in the Zulu War volumes
Skeleton & rope? EmptyWed Oct 16, 2024 3:26 pm by Julian Whybra

» Martini Henry carbine IC1 markings
Skeleton & rope? EmptyMon Oct 14, 2024 10:48 pm by Parkerbloggs

» James Conner 1879 clasp
Skeleton & rope? EmptyMon Oct 14, 2024 7:12 pm by Kenny

» 80th REG of Foot (Staffords)
Skeleton & rope? EmptySun Oct 13, 2024 9:07 pm by shadeswolf

» Frontier Light Horse uniform
Skeleton & rope? EmptySun Oct 13, 2024 8:12 pm by Schlaumeier

» Gelsthorpe, G. 1374 Private 1/24th / Scott, Sidney W. 521 Private 1/24th
Skeleton & rope? EmptySun Oct 13, 2024 1:00 pm by Dash

» A Bullet Bible
Skeleton & rope? EmptySat Oct 12, 2024 8:33 am by Julian Whybra

» Brothers Sears
Skeleton & rope? EmptyFri Oct 11, 2024 7:17 pm by Eddie

» Zulu War Medal MHS Tamar
Skeleton & rope? EmptyFri Oct 11, 2024 3:48 pm by philip c

» Ford Park Cemetery, Plymouth.
Skeleton & rope? EmptyTue Oct 08, 2024 4:15 pm by rai

» Shipping - transport in the AZW
Skeleton & rope? EmptySun Oct 06, 2024 10:47 pm by Bill8183

» 1879 South Africa Medal named 1879 BAR
Skeleton & rope? EmptySun Oct 06, 2024 12:41 pm by Dash

» A note on Captain Norris Edward Davey, Natal Volunteer Staff.
Skeleton & rope? EmptySun Oct 06, 2024 12:16 pm by Julian Whybra

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
November 2024
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
    123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
252627282930 
CalendarCalendar
Most active topics
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Please Do Not Post Ads on Our Forum
Google Chrome new standards imposed
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
In deference to other online platforms discussing the history of the Anglo-Zulu War of 1879
The missing five hours.
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
The ammunition question
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Top posting users this month
Julian Whybra
Skeleton & rope? Bar_leftSkeleton & rope? BarSkeleton & rope? Bar_right 
Tig Van Milcroft
Skeleton & rope? Bar_leftSkeleton & rope? BarSkeleton & rope? Bar_right 
SRB1965
Skeleton & rope? Bar_leftSkeleton & rope? BarSkeleton & rope? Bar_right 
warrior3
Skeleton & rope? Bar_leftSkeleton & rope? BarSkeleton & rope? Bar_right 
Eddie
Skeleton & rope? Bar_leftSkeleton & rope? BarSkeleton & rope? Bar_right 
John Young
Skeleton & rope? Bar_leftSkeleton & rope? BarSkeleton & rope? Bar_right 
Dash
Skeleton & rope? Bar_leftSkeleton & rope? BarSkeleton & rope? Bar_right 
aussie inkosi
Skeleton & rope? Bar_leftSkeleton & rope? BarSkeleton & rope? Bar_right 
Kev T
Skeleton & rope? Bar_leftSkeleton & rope? BarSkeleton & rope? Bar_right 
Petty Officer Tom
Skeleton & rope? Bar_leftSkeleton & rope? BarSkeleton & rope? Bar_right 
New topics
» Colonel Edward William Bray, 2nd/4th Regt.
Skeleton & rope? EmptyYesterday at 8:49 pm by John Young

» Samuel Popple
Skeleton & rope? EmptyTue Nov 12, 2024 3:36 pm by STEPHEN JAMES

» Colonel Charles Knight Pearson
Skeleton & rope? EmptyFri Nov 08, 2024 5:56 pm by LincolnJDH

» John West at Kambula
Skeleton & rope? EmptyMon Nov 04, 2024 11:54 pm by MKalny15

» How to find medal entitlement Coker
Skeleton & rope? EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 9:32 am by Kev T

» Frederick Marsh - HMS Tenedos
Skeleton & rope? EmptyThu Oct 31, 2024 1:42 pm by lydenburg

» Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home
Skeleton & rope? EmptyMon Oct 28, 2024 8:18 am by SRB1965

» Thrupps report to Surgeon General Wolfies
Skeleton & rope? EmptySun Oct 27, 2024 11:32 am by SRB1965

» Brother of Lt Young
Skeleton & rope? EmptySat Oct 26, 2024 9:52 pm by Eddie

Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying.
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address. Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.  If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.  We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes. There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site. The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum. The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
 

 Skeleton & rope?

Go down 
+2
Drummer Boy 14
SRB1965
6 posters
AuthorMessage
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 1254
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 59
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Skeleton & rope? Empty
PostSubject: Skeleton & rope?   Skeleton & rope? EmptySat Mar 24, 2018 6:56 am

Hi,

The following assumes that the body with the rope around his neck, was a fact.

I am currently in conversation on another forum about the skeleton found with a rope around its neck at Isandlwana.

I believe the discovery was made in June 1879 by Majors Black's party and was published in Mainwarrings account of events (in 1895) - but I may be wrong....

This fellow has always been associated with the 'cave' soldier - though I find this spurious, myself and I am not too concerned with the cave bit of the scenario.

The basic debate is - did some British get captured alive at Isandlwana, obviously some answers may be in Julian's 'Essays 5', so replies on this forum may be 'redacted'. I personally believe it was very possible

I struggle to think of a concrete reason why the Zulus would put a rope around the neck of a dead British soldier - other than to drag him out of the cave (but this still seems a little bit of effort to go and find a rope etc, when he could probably have been dragged out by an arm or whatever). However, I am not familiar with the terrain around (or access to) 'the cave' - nor in fact which cave it was (if the cave incident actually happened).

However there seems only one reason why a rope was put round the neck of a live soldier.

Cheers

Simon
Back to top Go down
Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14


Posts : 2008
Join date : 2011-08-01
Age : 27

Skeleton & rope? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Skeleton & rope?   Skeleton & rope? EmptySat Mar 24, 2018 10:34 am

I never understood why the solider with nope round his neck was linked to the cave solider, he was shot by Zulus. Why would they drag his body out to put rope round it, or why would they carry rope up to the cave.


Makes sense it was around a live soldier.

Cheers
Sam
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 1254
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 59
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Skeleton & rope? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Skeleton & rope?   Skeleton & rope? EmptySat Mar 24, 2018 10:40 am

Hi DB,

I think the theory was that after he was shot, they couldn't get him from his cave (the current favoured one is one you have to lie down it at the back - I believe), so to get him out, to try and rob any ammo (or whatever) or perform their rituals, they got a rope from somewhere (maybe the camp) and tied it round him to drag him out........

Not sure myself......

Ta

Sime
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 4175
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

Skeleton & rope? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Skeleton & rope?   Skeleton & rope? EmptySat Mar 24, 2018 11:16 am

SRB
Correction: "Julian and Frederic's essay 5"
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 1254
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 59
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Skeleton & rope? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Skeleton & rope?   Skeleton & rope? EmptySat Mar 24, 2018 11:42 am

Julian Whybra wrote:
SRB
Correction: "Julian and Frederic's essay 5"

Of course, sorry Frederic......
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 4175
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

Skeleton & rope? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Skeleton & rope?   Skeleton & rope? EmptySat Mar 24, 2018 1:29 pm

SRB
Of course, that's fine! I was just making a point really. Fred's contribution to the essay in vol. IV was massive - in thinking, research, and in content - it is important to me that he should receive an equal share in the credit for it. The same is true in the vol. V essay...as you will see!
Back to top Go down
xhosa2000

xhosa2000


Posts : 1183
Join date : 2015-11-24

Skeleton & rope? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Skeleton & rope?   Skeleton & rope? EmptySat Mar 24, 2018 4:30 pm


Patrone morientium membris mutiletur
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 1254
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 59
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Skeleton & rope? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Skeleton & rope?   Skeleton & rope? EmptySat Mar 24, 2018 5:26 pm

xhosa2000 wrote:

Patrone morientium membris mutiletur

Thanks to Google - "Dying mutilation"......

So therefore 'alive' when the rope was attached? But how alive?
Back to top Go down
rusteze

rusteze


Posts : 2871
Join date : 2010-06-02

Skeleton & rope? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Skeleton & rope?   Skeleton & rope? EmptySat Mar 24, 2018 5:40 pm

Agonising over a latin phrase that neither party used at the time is a bit of a waste of effort. To my mind, the traditional explanation that the Zulu needed to perform cleansing rituals on those they had killed is surely sufficient reason for them to have extracted the body from a difficult location using a rope.

Steve Reinstadtler
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 4175
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

Skeleton & rope? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Skeleton & rope?   Skeleton & rope? EmptySat Mar 24, 2018 6:24 pm

Or possibly NOT a rope but a halter...which ended up not being required...
Back to top Go down
xhosa2000

xhosa2000


Posts : 1183
Join date : 2015-11-24

Skeleton & rope? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Skeleton & rope?   Skeleton & rope? EmptySat Mar 24, 2018 7:02 pm

Agonising over a latin phrase that neither party used at the time is a bit of a waste of effort, errr
what!. not so Steve.. sorry Sime.. not part of your original question.. but as Julian ref studies 4/5
i thought i would issue a teaser as part of my reply addressing the mutilation question (s).. till i
get a grip of 5 i will keep my powder dry so to speak. i don't throw away latin phrases lightly. as
said the context will be provided at a later date. to form part of the bigger picture.
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 1254
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 59
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Skeleton & rope? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Skeleton & rope?   Skeleton & rope? EmptySat Mar 24, 2018 7:03 pm

rusteze wrote:
Agonising over a latin phrase that neither party used at the time is a bit of a waste of effort. To my mind, the traditional explanation that the Zulu needed to perform cleansing rituals on those they had killed is surely sufficient reason for them to have extracted the body from a difficult location using a rope.

Steve Reinstadtler

Hi Steve/Julian

I'm not really agonising over much at all at the moment....apart from our family car being wrote-off yesterday but Les posted a phrase, I dunno where he got it from, Google told me what it meant.....

However back to your point, if all bodies were mutilated, yes I wouldn't agree more....but I believe some bodies were not mutilated, so I am not convinced the idea of mutilation was universally observed......

Julian: Sorry but I do not want to be thick but I'm not quite sure what the difference is between a rope & a halter......especially when it around a (potentially) live persons neck.....what other purpose could it have....

Maybe one day Frank or 90th can carry out an experiment and lie lifeless in 'the cave' whilst someone tries to pull them out......(of course without the use of a ropey halter - that may be going too far)

Cheers

Sime
Back to top Go down
rusteze

rusteze


Posts : 2871
Join date : 2010-06-02

Skeleton & rope? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Skeleton & rope?   Skeleton & rope? EmptySat Mar 24, 2018 9:36 pm

Sorry to hear about the car Sime. I suppose that if it had been a halter rope it might indicate that the individual was attempting to catch a horse and so aid escape? Another thought - a pistol lanyard minus pistol?

Steve
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 1254
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 59
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Skeleton & rope? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Skeleton & rope?   Skeleton & rope? EmptySat Mar 24, 2018 9:46 pm

Thanks Steve, fortunately my wife was unharmed (shook up and upset but unharmed) - which is the important thing......I told the kids that "we can get a new car but new mummy's are harder to come by" - they are still whinging about having to walk to school...that's kids I spose....

I have often thought about it being an lanyard but I would assume that the finders would have recognised it for what it was and mentioned him being an officer.....

cheers anyway, Steve

Sime
Back to top Go down
rusteze

rusteze


Posts : 2871
Join date : 2010-06-02

Skeleton & rope? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Skeleton & rope?   Skeleton & rope? EmptySat Mar 24, 2018 9:57 pm

Apparently Mainwaring asked a doctor whether the skeleton was a white or black man - he said white. But that rather implies that there was no proof it was a soldier - what equipment might a voorloper or mulateer have had?

Steve
Back to top Go down
xhosa2000

xhosa2000


Posts : 1183
Join date : 2015-11-24

Skeleton & rope? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Skeleton & rope?   Skeleton & rope? EmptySun Mar 25, 2018 12:09 am

what equipment might a voorloper or mulateer have had? remark's Steve..
Voorloper..
A whip, length's of rope.. ( knee haltering ) a big stick.. can't think of any -
thing else
Back to top Go down
ADMIN

ADMIN


Posts : 4358
Join date : 2008-11-01
Age : 65
Location : KENT

Skeleton & rope? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Skeleton & rope?   Skeleton & rope? EmptySun Mar 25, 2018 3:07 am

SRB1965 wrote:
Hi,

The following assumes that the body with the rope around his neck, was a fact.

I am currently in conversation on another forum about the skeleton found with a rope around its neck at Isandlwana.

I believe the discovery was made in June 1879 by Majors Black's party and was published in Mainwarrings account of events (in 1895) - but I may be wrong....

This fellow has always been associated with the 'cave' soldier - though I find this spurious, myself and I am not too concerned with the cave bit of the scenario.

The basic debate is - did some British get captured alive at Isandlwana, obviously some answers may be in Julian's 'Essays 5', so replies on this forum may be 'redacted'. I personally believe it was very possible

I struggle to think of a concrete reason why the Zulus would put a rope around the neck of a dead British soldier - other than to drag him out of the cave (but this still seems a little bit of effort to go and find a rope etc, when he could probably have been dragged out by an arm or whatever). However, I am not familiar with the terrain around (or access to) 'the cave' - nor in fact which cave it was (if the cave incident actually happened).

However there seems only one reason why a rope was put round the neck of a live soldier.

Cheers

Simon

There is an account somewhere on the forum, where bodies of British soldiers were found at Isandlwana with their hands bound behind their backs.
Back to top Go down
https://www.1879zuluwar.com
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 1254
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 59
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Skeleton & rope? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Skeleton & rope?   Skeleton & rope? EmptySun Mar 25, 2018 5:03 am

Thanks, I will have to try to track it down

Cheers

Sime
Back to top Go down
 
Skeleton & rope?
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: