| Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess | |
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+16rusteze Mr M. Cooper nthornton1979 John Young kwajimu1879 Sherman barry Drummer Boy 14 Dave Chelmsfordthescapegoat ADMIN old historian2 1879graves littlehand 24th sas1 20 posters |
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nthornton1979
Posts : 154 Join date : 2011-01-18 Age : 45 Location : Runcorn, Cheshire, UK
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:32 am | |
| Cheers Les,
I don't think we are too far apart on our opinions here. We are in agreement that the book has errors and we are also in agreement that it is a pioneering epic. That fact is undeniable.
I posted earlier on this thread:-
"I realise it was much harder to research and piece things together 'back then' and this isn't meant as an attack on Morris".
My above comment again, reflects your own thoughts on just how difficult it was to research at the time of Morris.
I appreciate that what he acheived was 'epic' and 'pioneering' but at the same time, TWOTS is not a book I would use to base any kind of factual opinion. I am not saying that everything in the book is untrue but as it is riddled with errors, incorrect interpretations and incorrect assumptions, I find it very difficult to simply assume that what I am reading should be taken as fact.
I grew up with the film 'Zulu' and by the age of 10 I knew it word for word. I used to stand in front of the tv, holding a stick (my spear), whilst shouting the zulu chants at the top of my voice. It is a part of me and my journey into my fascination surrounding the battle. If anyone was to state that it is full of inaccuracies I would tell them that, although they are correct, it is still a classic. This is a mirror image of what is happening here in our comments regarding TWOTS, the only difference being, my role is reversed, ie I am not the one defending.
TWOTS was not something that I had any experience of when growing up and it had no bearing on my interest in the Zulu war. I think this is the reason I feel no emotional or personal attachment towards it. It wasn't a 'one of a kind' for me like the film was, because there were numerous books on the subject available to me by the time I started to read up on it. For me it is one of many books on the subject that I have read over a 20 year period. It was by no means the first book I read and it wasn't 'groundbreaking' by the time I read it. I wasn't born when it was released but if this was the first book I had read in my younger days and at the time there were no others to compare it to, then I would no doubt have forged a feeling of admiration for it, like I have with the movie.
Anyway, just a few thoughts and ramblings on a quiet and boring nightshift.
I will get something up and running regarding analysis of TWOTS when time permits.
All very interesting.
Cheers Neil |
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Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:55 am | |
| Hi Les/Neil Ive been AWOL for a few days so missed out on some of this discussion but my stance really cant change from the discussion Les/Steve of a couple of months back. there is no doubt at all that all the adjectives originally applied to TWOTS still stand, Magificent, Ground breaking etc, and of course that bibliography. But its not really what Morris researched or who he spoke to but what he did with the information that I take issue with. Various points he states as fact, rather than opinion, have gone down in the annals as historical accuracy. Neil has done a good job in highlighting a few of the points regarding RD but there are others that have been perpetuated and significantly altered perceptions of iSandlwana. A case in point is the statements of Mtshapi ka Noradu ka Mazwana about Quetuka kaManquondo. He was blamed by Morris for the start of the pursuit of Raw across the Plateau when in fact the statement by Mtshapi places him further back joining the Kandempemvu. There are quite a few points like that where statements, and Morris had access to them, were completely changed to fit his pattern. And that's my complaints about Morris. And its probably why he didn't use footnotes because he couldn't justify a great portion of his work. What is refered to as Humbling for him to not want to have his book refered to as history doesnt wash, it was regarded as such and he knew it. Again he wouldn't defend the critisism, because he couldn't. The above issue with Quetuka by the way has been carried forward even to this day by all the popular authors but having spent hours searching through the archives, PMB and Durban trying to find the source he refered to I could only come up with one quote and that repudiates Morris completely.
Just my twopence worth.
Cheers |
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat
Posts : 2593 Join date : 2009-04-24
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:45 pm | |
| Were there any other authors apart from Morris carrying out research on the Zulu War at the time or before he did. |
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90th
Posts : 10909 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: Cpl F Schiess Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:03 pm | |
| Hi ctsg I think D.Jackson was writing at the same time or near to it . Possibly one of the Sth African authors were producing a book on the Colonial Regiments from that period , I'm not 100% sure about that though ? . 90th |
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat
Posts : 2593 Join date : 2009-04-24
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:11 pm | |
| Thanks 90th.
I thought Jackson based his work on Morris, albeit using more trusted sources. |
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littlehand
Posts : 7076 Join date : 2009-04-24 Age : 56 Location : Down South.
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:26 pm | |
| Zulu Battle Piece: Isandhlwana by Sir Reginald Coupland - 1948. FIRST EDITION |
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littlehand
Posts : 7076 Join date : 2009-04-24 Age : 56 Location : Down South.
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:31 pm | |
| CTSG. Here's some publications with dates. I believe used by Morris Scroll down when you open link. Click Here |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:34 pm | |
| LH, you have just replicated what i posted above! i scanned the work involved..you lifted it wholesale of the net..the point please?. |
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Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:40 am | |
| I believe CTSGs question was: 'Were there any other authors doing research at the same time." The lists posted were effectively the sources used by Morris. TWOTS was printed in 1965, Jackson: 'Isandhlwana 1879 the sources re-examined' was published in three parts March 1965, September 1965 and December 1965. ( Journals of the Society for Army Historical Research ) I wouldn't agree that Jackson used TWOTS as a basis, the depth of his research precludes that and I would suggest that his research was completed before the publication of TWOTS. In Terms of other researchers busy at the time, Norman Holmes springs to mind, as does EA Ritter, EP Watt, Peter Davis and PR Kirby. Not to sure when Julian got involved. Then of course there was the South African connection with George Chadwick, Borquin, Colin Webb and John Wright etc. Morris spent time with Borquin I believe, and picked up the phrase 'Coffin shaped rock' at the same time.
Cheers |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:27 pm | |
| Thank's Neil/ Frank, you both express your opinions well. i could come across as a Morris apologist. which indeed i am not! in my mind he has, and never has, anything to apologize for.. it has however become a modern trend to ' knock ' Morris, when there are so many authors who truly deserve a kick up the backside for either jumping on the bandwagon, or more usually just for sloppy ineptitude... When i read and digested your replies i recognized that you both had agenda's, and not an agenda in the bad sense of that phrase..you Neil have recently finished what i am sure is a deep in depth study of the particular part of the great war which was of interest to you..and you Frank undertake to make people aware of everything topographically re- garding the Isandhlwana Battlefield and surrounding area. what i'm really tring to say is that you are both researchers and historians in your own right, so maybe you at least would acknowledge how much work Morris did..if only 10 per cent of the book was accurately correct that still leaves the other 90. below is part of another very recent opinion, that i agree with.. When he was working on it it was far more difficult to access the sources and visit the sites than it is now, so it was a huge effort to attempt anything that comprehensive. A lot of the sources in SA weren't catalogued, and he had to do everything by writing letters - it's all much easier now with the internet. He understood, too - and you have touched on this - that iSandlwana and Rorke's Drift are part of a much wider picture, and that you can't make sense of them without telling something of the story of the rest of it. I do remember seeing him on a TV interview years ago, talking about the Cold War - he said that the CIA had completely missed the Russian intention to put up the Berlin wall - 'we just looked out the office window one morning, and there it was!' I always wanted to say to him 'that's because you were too busy thinking about Zulus!' I think it's all too easy to criticism him - he has been an essential building block of our knowledge of the war. It's been easy to climb over him - to some extent his success was his undoing, because it stimulated a whole generation of historians who wanted to know more, and could use him as a base to start from. It's much easier to climb over somebody else than start from scratch! The above was private to me, i leave it here hoping that i am not..out of order reproducing that part. cheers Les |
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Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:14 am | |
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cam simpson
Posts : 90 Join date : 2014-10-10
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:34 pm | |
| An additional note on Schiess is that in January 1881 he was serving as a Sergeant in 'C' Troop, Bakers Horse the same time Jesse Mayor was serving as a Trooper in the same Troop. The troop was commanded then by Captain A.B. Martin who commanded them in a mounted charge at Qumbu on 3 December 1880. Several other Zulu War Veterans were serving in the same troop, several being former FLH men. |
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1879graves
Posts : 3385 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:11 pm | |
| [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]Homeward Mail from India, China and the East 10 January 1884 |
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Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:28 pm | |
| The man of mystery. Death reported on 14th December, buried at sea on his way to England, his passage paid for by subscription after he was found destitute in Durban, having possibly sold his VC. Subsequently seen as per the newspaper headlines. Then again seen by Penn Symonds in November 1891 an Allahabad when he told PS that he was scared of loosing his VC and so had 'Sent' it on to Australia where he was heading to. Penn Symonds was at RD at the same time as Schiess and would have heard all the stories and quite possibly got to know the men there. In his journal PS is very definite about the identity of the man he saw. Thanks Andy. |
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1879graves
Posts : 3385 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:37 pm | |
| Hi Frank
What does Penn Symonds quote about Schiess?
Andy |
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Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:17 am | |
| Morning Andy As below. " I saw Corporal Scheiss in November 1891 at Alahabad, India. He had been working in a jewellery shop, and was just going to Australia. Being afraid of loosing his Victoria Cross, he had sent it on ahead by registered post to his destination."
It would seem that there is evidence from the Duke of Connaught article that in 84 the Victoria Cross was in India so that could validate Scheiss presence. As I believe PS would have would possibly have recognised him the question then would have been who was the destitute shipped out of Durban? |
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SRB1965
Posts : 1254 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:16 am | |
| Hi,
Looking at it (apart from PS possibly knowing FS for a short period of time 12 years previous) the main evidence for his identity is missing (i.e. the actual VC) in both cases - entrusted to the Post Office or pawned.
Is Scheiss's medal in the NAM? If so is there any kind of provenance for where is has been since 1879 before being obtained by the NAM?
Having looked on VConline.org.uk, it claims his VC was on him when he died, presumably on board the shop....if the medal was on the fella on the ship, PS must have been mistaken unless of course the fella on the ship somehow obtained the medal and tried to use it for his own nefarious purposes.....and the India FS was so embarrassed that he had to sell his VC, he claimed to PS to have sent it in the post....
Ta
Sherlock Brown |
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Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:46 am | |
| Hi Sherlock There is the evidence of the Duke of Connaught, his attention was diverted to Schiess by the sight of the medal being worn. I would need to do some further digging but i have a gut feel there was a report somewhere that he had sold his medal in Durban. PS doesnt mention the medal unfortunatly. So against the 'rumour' that a) he sold it or b) he was buried with it is stacked the actual sighting of it in India. A 2 pipe problem Holmes? |
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rusteze
Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:00 am | |
| His medal is in the NAM. It featured in their Ashes and Blood catalogue back in 2001 but no provenance mentioned.
Steve |
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Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:49 pm | |
| So it would seem that a search in Australia would be in order. |
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Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:55 pm | |
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Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:18 pm | |
| Possible timeline. Scheiss awarded the VC by Wolseley on 3rd feb 1880 Serves in Bakers Horse January 1881 Goes to India and serves in the EIR Volunteers. Is seen by Connaught in December 1883 Conjecture: He returns to South Africa and falls on hard times. Is buried at sea 14th December 1884 Is recognised by PS in 1891 also in India, PS was at that time in OC 2nd Battalion SWB and was in India. Could PS have got it wrong? He was stationed in India in 1884 so it is conceivable that he got his years mixed up
All speculative I know but it is a solution |
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1879graves
Posts : 3385 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:47 pm | |
| - Frank Allewell wrote:
Is recognised by PS in 1891 also in India, PS was at that time in OC 2nd Battalion SWB and was in India. Could PS have got it wrong? He was stationed in India in 1884 so it is conceivable that he got his years mixed up
Hi Frank Has PS mixed up any other dates in his journal? Probably not. Andy |
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Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:06 pm | |
| Hi Andy I have to admit I havent looked. Julian is busy looking through the full journal at the moment, possibly he may have a comment. |
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rusteze
Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:27 pm | |
| It is surely very likely that Pen Symons did in fact meet Schiess in India. He must have had a conversation with Schiess in Alahabad to know he had been working in a jewellers shop, that he was going to Australia and had sent on his VC. We know that Pen Symons put some considerable effort into his account of RD in 1879 and probably spoke with Schiess then, or may even have come across him at the hospital before Chelmsford moved up to Isandhlwana. So I don't think it was a case of mistaken identity. I see no reason to believe that PS got his dates wrong either, particularly as he went through a drafting stage before finalising his report.
Steve |
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Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:40 pm | |
| Hi Steve The note about Schiess was added after completion, as were a number of others. There seems to be a direct access route for the NAM to the VC which would tend confirm the death aboard ship. The Duke of C report again sounds solid so how can one connect the dots. I would full agree that its logical to suggest that PS had a personal contact with Scheiss and would therefore be able to identify him. everything fits apart from the PS date. Conundrum time. |
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rusteze
Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:45 pm | |
| Earlier in this thread, back in 2011, Barry mentions that he has copies of letters from Schiess seeking employment. Any clues there I wonder?
Steve |
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Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:53 pm | |
| Hopefully Barry will see and confirm. |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:09 pm | |
| Please excuse but I have copied this from a similar topic on the Schiess 'Mystery' from way back in July 2016...
The piece about the Duke of Connaught also appeared in the Graphic, 2nd Feb 1884
The Duke of Connaught presenting war medals to the 13th Bengal Lancers at Meerut "...A curious incident occurred on the Duke's arrival at Allahabad. While inspecting the guard of honour of the East India Railway Volunteers his quick eye detected the Victoria Cross on the breast of one of the men, Mr F.C. Schiess. With that readiness and good-feeling so general with the members of the Royal Family the Duke at once stepped up to him, and inquired kindly how he had earned that distinction. 'At Rorke's Drift, South Africa,' was the answer..."
Natal Witness February 6th 1885 Death of a Zulu War VC "It may be remembered that Corporal Scheiss VC, was sent home from this by the troopship 'Serapis'. Word has now been received of the poor fellow's death. It is thus chronicled in the Portsmouth Times. 'Corporal Scheiss served as a volunteer during the last Zulu War, and was present in several engagements, including Rorke's Drift, where he showed conspicuous gallantry, and was awared the V.C. At the close of the war he returned to Natal, where for some time he existed in a state of absolute want. At the time of the arrival of the Serapis his abject condition led to the inhabitants to raise a sum of subscription to pay for his rations for the voyage home. He was taken on board, but his long exposure told on him, and about the 14th December he died on board."
[cause of death being pneumonia - according to his death certificate]
Natal Witness 4th Nov 1899 Writing in response to an enquiry as to what became of Cpl F. Schiess, a correspondent replied "...that he remembered reading years ago, both in the Witness and the Advertiser, of Corpl. Schiess (of Rorke's Drift fame), dying in India destitute."
A second correspondent replied some days later stating that Schiess had been sent back to England and had, he believed, died at Netley or Haslar. Interestingly this correspondent also stated that he had photographs of Schiess and that he was prepared to send copies to any interested parties!!!!
VC at the NAM...but no sign of his campaign medal - It was issued in 1882 with no record of having been returned to the mint |
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rusteze
Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:47 pm | |
| It would be very unusual for the NAM not to specify the source of the Schiess VC. The NAM is a reasonably modern institution that inherited some of its collections from the old RUSI museum when they were dispersed. I cannot see the Schiess medal in the RUSI catalogue for 1916, by which time I would have thought it was back in official hands.
Steve |
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SRB1965
Posts : 1254 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:48 pm | |
| Hi,
I would feel better with the timeline if PS had got the date wrong and that he met CFS in 1884 - both were in India around that time.
I wonder if CFS went out of his way to see PS or was it a chance meeting - probably the former (maybe CFS was hoping for employment or a reference).
I would tend to think that (if he was like me) PS would not recognise CFS unprompted (maybe 5 years later but 12 years later?) however PS was still an officer of the 24th, and that may have jogged CFS memory, when he heard the name.
I assume/guess more RD colleagues could have been in India at the time - Bromhead, Frank Bourne (was in India somewhere, about that time) etc
In my capacity of 'Master of the Bleeding Obvious' - both men can not be Schiess (I always tend to spell that wrong - which is a naughty word in German) unless PS is wrong about the date......
Cheers
Sime (MBO)
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Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:55 pm | |
| Ive spent the last few hours looking through PS for the numeral 9. Everything but. The reason for the search is in the date he met Schiess the 9 is written with a strange flourish. But no comparison anywhere to confirm it is a 9.
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rusteze
Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:54 am | |
| There is an interesting thread on the old RDVC forum that is referenced from the Wickipaedia page for Schiess. It notes that the current Swiss descendants of Schiess were eventually tracked down and although they were clearly aware of him they were not very forthcoming - more work was required. Many of the arguments on here were rehearsed then although no reference was made to Pen Symons account, which at that time was still being kept closely under wraps in Brecon (although I suspect that at least one of the members knew all about it!). Much about the supposed photograph of Schiess as well.
Steve |
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Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:12 pm | |
| Steve as an aside and considering your avitar there is a gun currently on auction thats reputed to be the one your man shot himself with. |
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Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:18 pm | |
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rusteze
Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:39 pm | |
| My wife is firmly of the opinion that the sight of so many bloody yellow sunflowers is enough to make anyone shoot themselves!
Steve |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:07 pm | |
| Just looking back through my file on Schiess - In the late 1960s a Mrs E. Sleicher and her son Frank Alfred Schiess, (a grand nephew of Cpl Schiess), made an unsuccessful attempt to claim his V.C. [The NAM acquisition number for the VC is No. 5811-96-1].
At some point I also made a note of an unconfirmed story that Schiess had sold his V.C. for 10s. in the 1880s. I can't remember where that came from though!
As to the Serapis - According to newspaper reports, 11 'indulgence passengers,' (including Schiess - who had joined when the ship stopped in Natal to disembark the 13th Hussars), had obtained a passage home. In additon to Schiess, there were a further 13 deaths reported during the voyage. |
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rusteze
Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:42 pm | |
| There are 45 registered deaths on Serapis between 1844 and 1890 but Schiess does not appear - do we know the precise date of sailing from SA?
Steve |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:06 pm | |
| Not sure on the exact departure date from SA
However it looks like Serapis arrived at Port Natal on, or around, 29th November 1884 from Bombay |
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Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:13 pm | |
| And Scheiss is 'buried' on the 14th December. |
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rusteze
Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:14 pm | |
| It looks very much like the NAM acquired the Schiess medal in 1958 - where was it before that I wonder?
Steve |
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SRB1965
Posts : 1254 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
| Subject: Re: Cpl. Christian Ferdinand Schiess Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:45 pm | |
| Hi,
According to the oft repeated tale, CFS died on board ship and when preparing his body for committal or otherwise going through his belongings - there was the VC which was returned to the 'War Office'
In the late 1950 the NAM was conceived being set up in 1960 (?)
Where could the VC have been from 1884 to 1950/60s? - in the War Office or RN archieves (I belive the ship was a RN one) or did the captain 'look after' it (Captain Archibald Lucius Douglas, maybe) - I spose no one had ever 'found' one before......
It obviously sounds a good story - an alcoholic 'tramp' dies on board a ship and is later found out to be a hero of perhaps the most famous battle of the era?
14 deaths on one voyage? Was that normal? It sounds a bit much for a journey from SA to England....
Cheers
Simon |
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