Rocket battery survivor - well almost

Subject: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Sun Oct 22, 2023 10:52 pm

Hi,

Does anyone know the name of a rocket battery survivor who made it through the camp but died on the Fugitives Trail?

Being as a number of rocketeers survived, did anyone mention one who did not but made it away from the rocket battery.

I am referring to the Hamer account of being given a horse by a rocket battery man after Hamer's 'Dick' had given up the ghost.

I am intreagued that the most exposed British 'unit', largely unsupported, and arguably furthest from the camp, generated the highest number (%age) of Imperial survivors.

Cheers

Sime

Posts : 3463 Join date : 2021-01-04

Morning Sime
I too have been trying to find out this chaps name to include in my new book titled 'Rocket Batteries in the Anglo Zulu War' which will be available next year.
If anyone out there does know anything about him I would be most grateful for any details.
Kate

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Mon Oct 23, 2023 8:02 am

Hi Kate,

Unfortunately, last time I mentioned this, I don't think all the members of the RB were known but hopefully some more names may have come to light.

Cheers

Sime

Last edited by SRB1965 on Tue Oct 24, 2023 8:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

In Frank's book he has Private Charles Mahoney, as part of the Rocket battery.

In the Noble 24th - Mahoney is recorded as KIA, so unless anyone has any other info about him - he is one possibility, there are also 4 more unnamed 1/24th Privates.

Does anyone know if Grant, Trainor or Johnson came from the same company of the 1st/24th?

Perhaps they were chosen from men who could ride a bit.

Thank you

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Tue Oct 24, 2023 8:12 pm

In NOBLE 24TH Grant wrote that the initial volley killed five of the battery's nine men, including Russell.

But there were more men than 9 - Taylor is #10 and is Mahoney #11?

Grant, Trainor, Taylor, Goff and Johnson survived = 5
Russell was killed
X made it back to the camp but was killed
4 were killed along with Russell

This makes 11. OK so Grant got his numbers wrong - he perhaps didn't count Taylor as part of the battery because he was Russell's soldier servant and not a member of the battery bur who else did he miss out - it must have been a fifth private of 24th.

It would seem, if Grant is right about 4 + Russell being killed, no one apart from the survivors and 'X' made it back to camp.

Would Hamer know 'X' was a rocketeer? If not why did he think he was? He didn't name him however Hamer doesn't say "thinks he was" he says he WAS a rocketeer

Presumably being as 'X' was not mentioned by any of the other battery survivors (as accompanying them), nor the NNMC officers, he made his own way back to camp.

None of this helps of course but I'm just bored....

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:39 pm

Hi Sime
I can’t help with Hamer’s account but I agree with your assessment of numbers for the Rocket Battery:

B/Maj Francis B Russell 11/7 Bty (KIA)
A/Bdr 2766 George Gough N/5 Bty
Gnr 2191 William G Taylor 11/7 Bty
Pte 665 Hector Grant C Coy 1/24th
Pte 299 William Johnston C Coy 1/24th
Pte 196 James Trainer C Coy 1/24th
Pte 590 Charles Mahoney C Coy 1/24th (KIA)
Plus 4 other Pte’s unknown all C Coy 1/24th (all KIA)

I’ve always found it odd that despite the rocket troughs all coming from N/5 Bty they only provided 1 man to the composite battery (Gough). It doesn’t seem to show a lot of commitment or faith in their use! I wonder what Capt Younghusband thought of having to second 8 of his men to the battery too.
Regards
Phil

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:47 pm

Hi Phil

That's interesting - how do you know they all came from C Coy? I'm not doubting you but just wondered how.

I did read somewhere when and where the battery was formed but I can't recall now - presumably C was stationed nearby.

Maybe Gough was there on an advisory technical capacity or he just ran between launchers 'lighting the blue touch paper' (or yanking the chord, in reality)

Cheers

Sime

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:03 pm

I've just found out (AKA realised) how Hamer knew 'X' - he was on AWDs staff

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Wed Oct 25, 2023 7:26 am

Hi Sime
Not sure where I first found the Pte’s were all from C Coy but it’s also confirmed by Julian in England’s Sons. There are several other articles about the rocket battery on the forum as well.
Phil

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Wed Oct 25, 2023 7:29 am

Hi Phil,

Thanks a lot

Sime

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:39 am

When the RB was formed, only C coy was present. There was nowhere else to take the men from.

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:45 am

Thank you Julian.

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:56 am

There is also a recorded reference to this which I'll try to dig out for you.

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Wed Oct 25, 2023 10:12 am

Thank you but don't worry too much about it.

I've about reached the end of my road unless/until another source or account, is discovered, to give the names of the 'four' and then that only gives more options for 'X'

Thank you

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:21 am

There is of course the possibility that X is Mahoney. It's only known that Mahoney was in the RB because he was so named on the casualty roll - the only RB man to be so singled out. There has to be a reason for that. Perhaps his body was found on the Fugitives' Trail, recognized and the location marked in some way.
Just a thought.

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:47 am

Hmmmm, I'd never thought of why Mahoney was named....as you say there must be a reason.

In the current available (or commonly available) sources Hamer does not name his 'rescuer'.

If when it came to burying the bodies (4 months or so later) it would be a bit to ask that Mahoney was recognisable. There may have been something found on his body which helped but the focus on identification seemed to be the officer's, Natal volunteers and direct associates of the searchers.

It's likely that more of 2nd/24th were identified because more of the 2nd/24th were alive to recognisable them.

Most of the people who knew Mahoney may have died on the 22nd - apart from the actual survivor's - I wonder if Hamer actually knew him by name but for some reason omitted it from his statements?

Thank you

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Wed Oct 25, 2023 12:47 pm

I found this on the forum about Nourse:-

Just before the first volley, Private Grant and another of the gunners had been detailed to hold the horses and, despite the chaos, they had hung onto the terrified animals.

Still holding the jumble of reins, they managed to mount and with great resolve and commendable horsemanship they galloped away, Grant leading two spare horses and the other gunner leading one.

So 'X' would be by all chances be one of the horse holders.....Nourse says he galloped off - so assuming he didn't go the scenic route, he should have been back to camp fairly quickly.

He then must have hung around in camp until it all went down hill, before riding off down the FT....I believe he left after Hamer because Hamer says he rode up (I doubt if anyone would be riding back towards the camp).

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Wed Oct 25, 2023 2:12 pm

Sime in a similr vein an artillery man was recognise a long way down the trail by the number on the inside of his belt. possibly a similar situation

Cheers

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Wed Oct 25, 2023 2:37 pm

Sometimes I have to think about things a bit - it's probably the way people's minds retain info in times of crisis/stress

One minute Hamer say the Zulus are stabbing out poor fellows off their horses, the next his horse is shot and he has time to swap saddles.

One thing, I have found is Hamer did go back to the FT 'some months later' - as far as his dead horse and possibly near to 'X'....

That would be one method of identifying a body, Frank

Cheers

Sime

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Wed Oct 25, 2023 2:52 pm

At any rate he didn't wait till June. Smith if I recall correctly was found in Feb-March, perhaps they explored a little way along the Fugitives' Trail (from the Buffalo end). Perhaps Hamer or one of the surviving RB ptes, who could all ride presumably, accompanied one of these 'expeditions'. There must have been something to make Mahoney stand out in a way that the other three unnamed men did not.

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Wed Oct 25, 2023 3:05 pm

Julian, do you know if there was a list at the time of identified bodies?

A lot of 'work' seemed to go into the officers etc but was there some kind of central 'database' which correlated separate burial expeditions?

Or was it just pot luck depending on who found the body, if any identification took place.

I assume nothing was done to identify most of the bodies officially but was wondering about a list of bodies that had been identified.

Cheers

Simon

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Wed Oct 25, 2023 4:36 pm

If anyone did make such a list, then it has not survived. The suggestion pre-supposes an individual given that brief and I can't think who that might be. No-one is ever mentioned as taking on that role.
Neither were expeditions correlated. As you wrote it seems to have been pot luck if any identification took place and, more to the point, if such identification were recorded.

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Wed Oct 25, 2023 5:49 pm

Reading through Grants statement, he says he (and one other) were detailed to hold the horses and he was quite close to the troughs.

The Zulus fired their volley and the mules and NNCI bolted.

Grant galloped off.....I wonder what Johnson and Trainor thought seeing their transport disappearing into the distance.....and more to the point keep going.

Plus something else that occurs to me....11 men in the battery, Taylor and Russell had their own horses, Gough did (was he still mounted at the time?)....however we only have 5 horses being held (Grant 3 and the other man 2 - including their own horses?) - so we are 3 horses short, was Grant mistaken and 3 men were detailed to hold the horses.....or did the pair loose some horses in chaos?

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:05 am

I suspect that Taylor escaped with 2 horses, his own and Russell's. Russell's horse overtook him and he must have caught up with it to remove Russell's sword and money. What he did with the horse then he does not say. I imagine he probably switched horses and gave the spare to A. N. Other.

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:30 am

It's probable that Taylor switched horses to Russell's horse, rather than ferret through the saddle bags and remove the sword.

Additionally, maybe he had thoughts of the value of the horse.

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Thu Oct 26, 2023 12:41 pm

They were my thoughts.

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Thu Oct 26, 2023 12:42 pm

I also recall an account in which someone was given a horse by an artilleryman which I'd always assumed to be Goff.

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Mon Oct 30, 2023 8:45 pm

For whatever reason Mahoney is mentioned in the London Gazette March 1879 as being in the Rocket battery - this could be where it was picked up by Holme for the Noble 24th.

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Mon Oct 30, 2023 9:06 pm

That said in the N24th Holme has Martin Maloney 25B/137 down as the Rocket fellow.

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Mon Oct 30, 2023 9:34 pm

That was the casualty roll.

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Mon Oct 30, 2023 9:39 pm

Yes. That's correct.

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Mon Oct 30, 2023 9:50 pm

Just to make things more confusing the LG in March 79 has Maloney down as Mahoney.....

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Tue Oct 31, 2023 8:25 am

But his name WAS Mahoney. Slip of the fingers?

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Tue Oct 31, 2023 9:07 am

In the Noble 24th Charles Mahoney (our rocketeer) is directly prior to Martin Maloney (who Holmes' has as Rocketeer)

The London Gazette has both Mahoney C and Mahoney M, with Charles being the rocketeer - Maloney is named as Mahoney.

What other evidence is there that Charles Mahoney was the man?

Unfortunately, I no longer have my copy of the Silver Wreath - was that book used as a basis for the Noble 24th?

Given the fact the London Gazette was published with 3 months of the battle - where did they get their info about an attached soldier, thousands of miles away, when the Zulus destroyed the muster lists?

Thanks

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Tue Oct 31, 2023 9:09 am

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Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Tue Oct 31, 2023 9:12 am

Supplement to the London Gazette, 15th March, 1879.

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Note the variation in the following name.

JY

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Tue Oct 31, 2023 9:26 am

Silver Wreath has:
Private Mahoney Charles 25B/590 Attached to Rocket Battery Medal and Clasp 1879
Private Maloney Martin 25B/137 Medal and clasp 1877-8-9

Additional note:
Private Marney Cornelius Shown in some musters as 'Mahoney' 1-24 1348 Medal and clasp 1879

Cheers

Last edited by SRB1965 on Tue Oct 31, 2023 9:31 am; edited 1 time in total

If Hamer named his man in a further 'lost' statement or private letter.

How would the LG get hold of it?

If Mahoney had been a naughty boy and been charged with something - would that be a source for his attachment record.

Mahoney, Maloney or a load of Baloney.....

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Tue Oct 31, 2023 9:28 am

Sumebody didnt know his H from his L

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:57 am

The fact remains that the official casualty roll has Mahoney down as RB and that was published as early as 10th Feb 1879 in the Natal Mercury. It was signed and dated by Bellairs on 6th Feb 1879.

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:12 pm

OK, thank you, so it would appear that this was the primary source for Mahoney.

Just out of interest, who would have been responsible for compiling the casualty list - officers of 24th and artillery etc

Subject: Re: Rocket battery survivor - well almost Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:35 pm

Col. Bellairs was the Deputy Adjutant General and his dept. produced all the casualty lists published in the war. Presumably information was provided by each regiment or corps.

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