24th Foot Database for Isandlwana

Subject: 24th Foot Database for Isandlwana Wed Dec 20, 2023 5:39 pm

I'm thinking about creating an 'excel' type spread sheet for 24th at Isandlwana.

Name, Regimental number, rank, company, enlistment/attestement age and location, DoB and location of birth, marital status etc

I have the Noble 24th to use a first source book - some of the info may not be available but it will be a good start.

Before I start - has anyone done this already?

It should enable one to filter data by age, place of birth etc

Cheers

Simon

Subject: Re: 24th Foot Database for Isandlwana Wed Dec 20, 2023 7:19 pm

Very interesting Simon, is a very good idea.

Subject: Re: 24th Foot Database for Isandlwana Wed Dec 20, 2023 7:29 pm

It might have some uses.

Subject: Re: 24th Foot Database for Isandlwana Wed Dec 20, 2023 10:26 pm

I have been doing this since 2018. Though slightly expanded. Took photos of the muster lists from 1848 (1st Bn) 1858 (2nd Bn) with Depot Companies plus the Depot from 1873. Indexed so far 1872-1881 it's quite a slog.

Subject: Re: 24th Foot Database for Isandlwana Thu Dec 21, 2023 9:21 am

Must have been a massive work Bill8183. Respect !! Is the intention to conduct further research to
look for descendants of the soldiers of the 24th?

Posts : 615 Join date : 2013-05-07 Location : Brecon

Simon,

The challenge for you is that the service docs/enlistment forms have not survived as the men died in service. As you see Bill has done a lot of work - many hours in National Archives - earlier Alan Baynham-Jones produced a mor or less comprehensive list of 24th who served in AZW (more data than contained in 'The Noble 24th')- however for the casualties there were many unknowns which may never be resolved.

Subject: Re: 24th Foot Database for Isandlwana Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:05 am

Hi,
I am currently considering using the Noble 24th (which I have to hand) and getting a copy of England's Sons to pick up on any errors or omissions in the N24th.

I realise there will be gaps on the data and I only intend to do it for Isandlwana and RD.

Lists will have been done before but I (if I go through with the project) will create it in spread sheet format, so the data can be sorted (for example if you wish to find the oldest soldier at Isandlwana or the average age of enlistment)

I'll put the files in the public domain so people can use it for their own needs or research.

Cheers

Simon

Subject: Re: 24th Foot Database for Isandlwana Thu Dec 21, 2023 12:56 pm

Stefaan:
No, biographical details are not my main interest. Although useful, I'm more inclined to details of actual service, where they were, who they served with etc.

The end result will hopefully be a list of who was where on the 22nd January. Rorke's Drift defenders and Isandlwana casualty lists abound but not much, apart from rough numbers, of where everyone else was stationed. The 24th was quite a fractured unit.

I myself started off with the Noble 24th, transcribing it first into word then Excel for better data manipulation. I gave myself 3-5 years, the pandemic didn't help but 5.1/2 years later I'm probably less than half way through. 45K photos taken and 10K downloads and counting.

It's an ever expanding web of information, there's always another thread appearing when you think you're almost done. I have a multitude of pay-lists, casualty returns, embarkation lists, medal rolls, Netley hospital returns, discharge depots, Court Martials, pensions, the lists goes on and on.

The work by Alan Baynham-Jones is important but checking through that to check biographical info would probably add another few years or more to my study. Perhaps I may be able to publish my finished list as a sort of Noble 24th update, I know nothing of those sort of things, I'll have to have guidance on that.

Bill

Posts : 615 Join date : 2013-05-07 Location : Brecon

Simon,

The oldest soldiers killed at Isandlwana are obvious - QM Pullen and Paymaster White both born c1829. The majority of soldiers enlisted at age 18 or 17 (if previous service in militia) and a few joined at 14 as boys. You can work out a rough enlistment date from the personal/army number of the soldier. Almost in every case the key document you are seeking if the enlistment paper no longer exists. You are embarking on what could be lengthy research project as Bill has pointed out. As an illustration, Norman Holme appears to have started his research in 1975 and pubished his first book (The Silver Wreath) in 1992 and the update The Noble 24th in 2000.

Subject: Re: 24th Foot Database for Isandlwana Thu Dec 21, 2023 3:15 pm

Actually I had the Silver Wreath bought for me at Christamas 1979 (along with Barthorp's Zulu War book).....a strange present that 14 year old would ask 'Santa' for....

Posts : 615 Join date : 2013-05-07 Location : Brecon

Simon,

Sorry, an error The Silver Wreath was published in 1979. And Norman probably started his research in about 1965.

Subject: Re: 24th Foot Database for Isandlwana Thu Dec 21, 2023 4:19 pm

I think somehow we are getting mixed up here.

All I was considering doing was transcribing the Noble 24th into an excel style spreadsheet, for other people's convenience, to use as they wish, adding and altering as they see fit.

A few months ago Julian and myself were discussing (on a thread) the oldest soldiers, not just the QMs but the Privates as well - we were looking through the Noble 24th checking on enlistment dates and ages - I thought that it would be much easier if we had an excel sheet.

I'm not intending to do any (or very little) new research into soldiers.

Cheers

Simon

Posts : 615 Join date : 2013-05-07 Location : Brecon

Simon,

I have checked in my computer archive - and sincerely sorry to dampen your enthusiasm, I have a WORD doc/table based on The Noble 24th of the complete 24th Medal Roll. This can be converted to an Excel spreadsheet - but you can sort each column in a WORD table. My column headings are: Battalion, Name, Other names, Regtl Number, Rank, Where born, Year born, Where enlisted, Year enlisted, Remarks (i.e. Killed Isandwana, survived RD etc). Probably needs extra column 'memorial location'.

My table was created in 2003 after the publication of The Noble 24th and needs now updating with Alan B-J's later research, and add other from Julian Whybra and Tim Needham (particularly on memorials). And we need to distinguish between pre-1873 and post 1873 (ie. 25B) regimental numbers which Norman did not always do. I need some days after the Christmas festivities to get the Isandlwana and RD entries into a reasonable shape which I can let you and Julian have.

Subject: Re: 24th Foot Database for Isandlwana Thu Dec 21, 2023 8:54 pm

Kenny,

No worries, as long as something similar is already available and it will save me doing it and I can work on a different project.

I have all the same column headings on my sample sheet, that I have done, except I do not have the memorial location but I do have an 'affects claimed by' column - simply because it may indicate if the soldier was married (if claimed by his wife - obvious other claimants do not mean he was not married)

Cheers

Simon

Posts : 615 Join date : 2013-05-07 Location : Brecon

Simon,

Now at the end of Christmas festivities, I can now send you my database of 24th Foot for Isandlwana - a WORD table which can be converted to EXCEL spreadsheet. Send me a private message with your email address.

Best wishes for 2024.

Subject: Re: 24th Foot Database for Isandlwana Sun Jan 07, 2024 11:03 am

Thanks a lot, I will send you a message.

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