WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu. Lieutenant John Chard: The army doesn't like more than one disaster in a day. Bromhead: Looks bad in the newspapers and upsets civilians at their breakfast.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  Latest imagesLatest images  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyTue Nov 19, 2024 10:05 am by Tig Van Milcroft

» Dr. A. Ralph Busby
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptySun Nov 17, 2024 11:25 pm by Julian Whybra

» Lieutenant M.G. Wales, 1st Natal Native Contingent
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptySat Nov 16, 2024 12:32 pm by Matthew Turl

» Colonel Edward William Bray, 2nd/4th Regt.
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyFri Nov 15, 2024 9:55 pm by Julian Whybra

» Royal Marine Light Infantry, Chatham
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyThu Nov 14, 2024 7:57 pm by Petty Officer Tom

» H.M.S. Forester
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyThu Nov 14, 2024 4:07 pm by johnex

» Samuel Popple
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyWed Nov 13, 2024 8:43 am by STEPHEN JAMES

» Studies in the Zulu War volume VI now available
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptySat Nov 09, 2024 6:38 pm by Julian Whybra

» Colonel Charles Knight Pearson
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyFri Nov 08, 2024 5:56 pm by LincolnJDH

» Grave of Henry Spalding
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyThu Nov 07, 2024 8:10 pm by 1879graves

» John West at Kambula
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyThu Nov 07, 2024 5:25 pm by MKalny15

» Private Frederick Evans 2/24th
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptySun Nov 03, 2024 8:12 pm by Dash

» How to find medal entitlement Coker
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptySun Nov 03, 2024 10:51 am by Kev T

» Isandlwana Casualty - McCathie/McCarthy
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptySat Nov 02, 2024 1:40 pm by Julian Whybra

» William Jones Comment
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 6:07 pm by Eddie

» Brother of Lt Young
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 5:13 pm by Eddie

» Frederick Marsh - HMS Tenedos
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 9:48 am by lydenburg

» Mr Spiers KIA iSandlwana ?
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 7:50 am by Julian Whybra

» Isandhlwana unaccounted for casualties
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 7:48 am by Julian Whybra

» Thrupps report to Surgeon General Wolfies
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyThu Oct 31, 2024 12:32 pm by Julian Whybra

» Absence of Vereker from Snook's Book
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyFri Oct 25, 2024 10:59 pm by Julian Whybra

» Another Actor related to the Degacher-Hitchcock family
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyMon Oct 21, 2024 1:07 pm by Stefaan

» No. 799 George Williams and his son-in-law No. 243 Thomas Newman
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptySat Oct 19, 2024 12:36 pm by Dash

» Alphonse de Neuville- Painting the Defence of Rorke's Drift
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyFri Oct 18, 2024 8:34 am by Stefaan

» Studies in the Zulu War volumes
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyWed Oct 16, 2024 3:26 pm by Julian Whybra

» Martini Henry carbine IC1 markings
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyMon Oct 14, 2024 10:48 pm by Parkerbloggs

» James Conner 1879 clasp
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyMon Oct 14, 2024 7:12 pm by Kenny

» 80th REG of Foot (Staffords)
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptySun Oct 13, 2024 9:07 pm by shadeswolf

» Frontier Light Horse uniform
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptySun Oct 13, 2024 8:12 pm by Schlaumeier

» Gelsthorpe, G. 1374 Private 1/24th / Scott, Sidney W. 521 Private 1/24th
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptySun Oct 13, 2024 1:00 pm by Dash

» A Bullet Bible
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptySat Oct 12, 2024 8:33 am by Julian Whybra

» Brothers Sears
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyFri Oct 11, 2024 7:17 pm by Eddie

» Zulu War Medal MHS Tamar
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyFri Oct 11, 2024 3:48 pm by philip c

» Ford Park Cemetery, Plymouth.
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyTue Oct 08, 2024 4:15 pm by rai

» Shipping - transport in the AZW
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptySun Oct 06, 2024 10:47 pm by Bill8183

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
November 2024
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
    123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
252627282930 
CalendarCalendar
Most active topics
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Please Do Not Post Ads on Our Forum
Google Chrome new standards imposed
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
In deference to other online platforms discussing the history of the Anglo-Zulu War of 1879
The missing five hours.
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
The ammunition question
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Top posting users this month
Julian Whybra
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. Bar_leftSir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. BarSir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. Bar_right 
Tig Van Milcroft
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. Bar_leftSir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. BarSir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. Bar_right 
Dash
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. Bar_leftSir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. BarSir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. Bar_right 
SRB1965
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. Bar_leftSir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. BarSir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. Bar_right 
Eddie
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. Bar_leftSir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. BarSir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. Bar_right 
warrior3
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. Bar_leftSir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. BarSir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. Bar_right 
1879graves
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. Bar_leftSir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. BarSir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. Bar_right 
aussie inkosi
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. Bar_leftSir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. BarSir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. Bar_right 
John Young
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. Bar_leftSir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. BarSir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. Bar_right 
Kev T
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. Bar_leftSir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. BarSir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. Bar_right 
New topics
» Dr. A. Ralph Busby
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptySat Nov 16, 2024 11:36 am by Julian Whybra

» Colonel Edward William Bray, 2nd/4th Regt.
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyWed Nov 13, 2024 8:49 pm by John Young

» Samuel Popple
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyTue Nov 12, 2024 3:36 pm by STEPHEN JAMES

» Colonel Charles Knight Pearson
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyFri Nov 08, 2024 5:56 pm by LincolnJDH

» John West at Kambula
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyMon Nov 04, 2024 11:54 pm by MKalny15

» How to find medal entitlement Coker
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 9:32 am by Kev T

» Frederick Marsh - HMS Tenedos
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyThu Oct 31, 2024 1:42 pm by lydenburg

» Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyMon Oct 28, 2024 8:18 am by SRB1965

» Thrupps report to Surgeon General Wolfies
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptySun Oct 27, 2024 11:32 am by SRB1965

Similar topics
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying.
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address. Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.  If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.  We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes. There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site. The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum. The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
 

 Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War.

Go down 
+2
littlehand
old historian2
6 posters
AuthorMessage
old historian2

old historian2


Posts : 1093
Join date : 2009-01-14
Location : East London

Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. Empty
PostSubject: Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War.   Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyMon Dec 07, 2009 8:04 pm

A load of racist nonsense if you ask me.

" The true causes of the Zulu, as of the Afghan war, are neglect of neighbourly duties and responsibilities, incumbent on a rich, civilized and powerful nation, towards poor barbarous tribes on its borders. We have allowed a noble people, capable of rapid and permanent advancement in civilization, to grow in numbers, whilst they festered in barbarism, till they became a serious danger to us. We have shut our eyes and turned our backs on their wants and defects, left them as much as possible to themselves, endeavoured to see and know as little of them, and to let them see and know as little of us as was possible, and then we are surprised to find that they have grown into a danger, only to be averted by war.”

" No competent judge, as far as I can learn, now doubts Cetywayo's policy to have inflicted even more atrocious damage on Natal in the year just passed, than he and his uncle had inflicted before, by the hands of men many of whom are still living and active members of the late Zulu army.

" These facts seem to me to prove that I did not over-estimate the Zulu danger; let me add a few words in answer to the counter charge of rashness, in that I under-estimated it, and allowed Lord Chelmsford to attempt the task with an insufficient force.

" In answer to this, I will only ask Mr. Gladstone to ponder one more unquestionable fact. An unexpected disaster, caused in Lord
Chelmsford's absence by disregard of his orders, entailed a delay of five months and serious discouragement to us, and added enormously to the military prestige of the enemy.

Nevertheless, as soon as he was enabled to resume the offensive, Lord Chelmsford, moving on the same line as that he first adopted, in eight marches from the scene of the former disaster, with a column of about 6000 Europeans, completely defeated the Zulu army annihilated their military system.

" Will any one, with this unquestionable fact before him, say?
I was rash in what I asked Lord Chelmsford to attempt in January with about 6600 English soldiers, commanded by officers like Wood and Redvers Buller, Pearson and Glyn?

" But it is said by some people, ' Cetywayo did not intend to use his army for purposes of war;' others say, ' the war might have been postponed.'

" Few, probably, now go so far as to maintain that Cetywayo kept up his army in the interests of peace.' He had formally and repeatedly announced his desire to shed blood, and there was no one within reach, beyond his own dominions, whose blood he could shed, save English subjects or their protected allies.

" He had enrolled every able-bodied male in his kingdom into his army, and trained that army into a most perfect machine of destruction.

"Would Mr. Gladstone believe any civilized monarch on the earth, if he said that such a universal enrolment and training of the whole male population was not intended to be used for any Military purpose?



Source: Afghanistan and South Africa; a letter to the Right Hon. W.E. Gladstone, M.P., regarding portions of his Midlothian speeches
Back to top Go down
littlehand

littlehand


Posts : 7076
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 56
Location : Down South.

Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War.   Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptySun Jul 20, 2014 5:06 pm

"
SIR BARTLE FRERE ON HIMSELF.

SIR BARTLE FRERE is, perhaps, the most conspicuous living example of the class of men who will deliberately conceive and carry out an iniquitous policy, thinking all the while that they are doing God service and conferring benefits even on the victims of their policy. In a pamphlet just pub- lished Sir Bartle defends his Afghan and South-African policies with arguments which might be used to justify every auto da fe in the records of the Spanish Inquisition. The pamphlet is, in fact, a vindication of the policy that the end justifies the means. Sir Bartle Frere would, perhaps, deny this, for one of the most curious things in his pamphlet is his incapacity to appreciate the moral significance of his words and acts. The ostensible cause of his apologia is a very courteous reference made to him by Mr. Gladstone in one of his Midlothian speeches. To his and Sir Henry Rawlinson's influence Mr. Gladstone attributed in a large degree the Afghan and Zulu wars. But to Sir Bartle Frere and Sir Henry Rawlinson per- sonally Mr. Gladstone gave high praise. He described them as men " of high character and great ability," "gentlemen of benevolence " also ; but " apt, in giving scope to their benevolent motives, to take into their own hands the choice of means, in a manner those who are conversant with free institutions and a responsible Government never dream of. Sir Bartle Frere's mode of action at the Cape of Good Hope does not tend to credit his advice in Afghanistan." This quotation Sir Bartle Frere makes the text of his pamphlet. It " gave currency," he says, " to the old calumnies and mis- representations of facts and opinion," and tended to " the ruin of the prosperity of a region which might otherwise become a southern home of men of European races, discharging a great duty in civilising, and raising in the scale of humanity the mil- lions of natives of Africa." Sir Bartle Frere has always got some grand scheme of benevolence in his mind to justify the most nefarious policy. But how did Mr. Gladstone's Midlothian speeches ruin Sir Bartle's high policy ? "Because," says Sir Bartle, "large numbers of my countrymen had consequently, in reliance on your testimony, condemned me, and all I had done or proposed to do, in South Africa, before I could be heard in my own defence ; and I was recalled from South Africa at a very critical period in the fortunes of its colonies." Sir Bartle Frere has here fallen into an error of fact. The large majority of his countrymen had con- demned him months before Mr. Gladstone's Midlothian

campaign. Nor was he condemned " before he could be heard in his own defence." In this pamphlet he has added no fact or argument of the slightest value to the defence that he made of himself in voluminous despatches which were pub- lished at the time in the Blue-books, and which were before

the public when his policy was arraigned in both Houses of Parliament. The late Government employed its majorities in, successfully resisting the demand for Sir Bartle's recall ; but, with the exception of Lord Salisbury and Lord Carnarvon, no attempt was made to justify his policy. On the contrary, the late Government rebuked him severely for needlessly precipitating the Zulu war, and soon afterwards superseded him in the region where he had done so much mischief, by the appointment of Sir Garnet Wolseley in his stead. That he "was recalled from South Africa at a very critical period in the fortunes of its colonies" may be true ; for the periods of Sir Bartle Frere's independent rule have generally been critical periods. He was allowed to remain in South Africa till the event proved that he had no influence but for evil. The work which he was sent thither to accomplish was the Confederation of the South-African Colonies, and he was only recalled when that scheme was rejected, and rejected in a way which showed that, if it was ever destined to succeed, Sir Bartle Frere was not the man to bring it about.

We do not propose, nor is it necessary, to examine in detail the line of argument which Sir Bartle Frere has followed in this vindication of his policy. The value of the whole per- formance may be tested by a few typical examples. "The true causes of the Zulu, as of the Afghan, war," says Sir Bartle Frere, " are neglect of neighbourly duties and responsi- bilties, incumbent on a rich and powerful nation, towards poor, barbarous tribes on the borders. We have allowed a noble- people, capable of rapid and permanent advancement in civili- sation, to grow in numbers, whilst they festered in barbarism, till they became a serious danger to us." The " serious danger," in Zululand as well as in Afghanistan, we believe to be purely a creation of Sir Bartle Frere's imagination. The deliberate- conviction of those who had the best means of knowing are dead against him. Dean Green and Bishop Colenso are strongly opposed to each other on other questions, but on this they are agreed. They have spent more than thirty years in Natal, and have an intimate knowledge of the Zulus, and they have both publicly declared that there was not the slightest danger of a Zulu invasion. And this conclusion was entirely justified by facts. After the disaster of Isandlana, Natal lay for some time at the mercy of the Zulus. Yet they took no advantage of their opportunity, and it is now known that Cetywayo's orders to his army were to stand on the defensive.. But Sir Bartle Frere maintains not only that the Zulus would, but that they actually did, invade Natal :—" I have always maintained," he says, " it was not we who made war on Cety- wayo, but he who made war on us." The foundation for this astounding assertion is the following :—Two Zulus, who were guilty of a capital crime according to Zulu law, fled across the Tugela river. They were followed some little distance into British territory, fetched back, and put to death. This is magnified by the heated imagination of Sir Bartle Frere into "two armed violations of British territory by armed bands," who had forcibly taken away two refugees from British territory into Zululand, and there murdered them." There was a time, and not very long ago, when the theft of a handkerchief worth five shillings was a capital offence in England. Is it Sir Bartle Frere's opinion that every king under whom that barbarous law was executed was a murderer ? Or does he think that the crime—that of adultery—for which the Zulu refugees were executed is morally less heinous than petty larceny ? And as for the armed violations of British territory by armed bands," it simply means that two hot-headed youths, relatives of the- runaway culprits, and who were doubtless very ignorant of international law, crossed the British frontier with a few followers in pursuit of the runaways. For this offence Cetywayo apologised, and offered what, according to Zulu customs, he considered an ample atonement. This is Sir Bartle Frere's justification for saying that "it was not we who made war on Cetywayo, but he who made war on us." The truth is, Sir Bartle Frere believed that he had a mission to civilise and evangelise the Zulus, and he seems to think, with the Bishop of Gloucester and Bristol, that bullets and bayonets are the most effectual instruments for propagating the Gospel of Christianity and civilisation. Bent on the policy of Confederation, he was anxious to propitiate the Boers. With this object in view he virtually set aside the award of his own arbi- trators, and practically adjudged to the Boers valuable territory which rightfully belonged to the Zulus. Nor was this enough; the power of the Zulus must be entirely broken. The trumpery "invasions of British territory," to which we have referred, were greedily seized upon " as unquestionable acts of hostility and virtual declarations of war," and lest the Zulu king should accept Sir Bartle Frere's ultimatum on that point, other con- ditions were added which really meant nothing less than the surrender of the independence of the Zulu King and nation, and the practical annexation of Zululand.

So much for Sir Bartle Frere's policy in South Africa. The obliquity of moral vision which is so evident there is still more conspicuous in Sir Bartle's too successful policy in Afghanistan. "For close on a quarter of a century," he says, "I have per- sistently urged on the Government of India, and through it, on the Government of England the only policy which, as later events have shown, could have prevented the necessity for any military advance into Afghanistan." This policy is fully explained in Sir Bartle's famous Memorandum of June, 1874, which he has republished in this volume, and to which is due the conversion of Lord Beaconsfield's Government to the policy which resulted in the Afghan war. The salient points of that Memorandum are three in number. The first is the occupation of Quetta ; the second, the placing of British officers in the principal towns of Afghanistan ; and the third, the promotion of civil war between Shere Ali and his son Yakoob, who was then governor of Herat. This was a policy which Sir Bartle Frere frankly owns " would give umbrage to the Ameer of Cabul." But if he made any serious objection, the Indian Government was to break off diplomatic relations with him, and "clear for action." Sir Bartle Frere's third recommendation was frustrated by the imprisonment of Yakoob Khan ; but the other two were fol- lowed out to the letter, and were the direct cause of the Afghan war. Yet Sir Bartle Frere says, with transparent sincerity,- " I am no more responsible for the Afghan war than the person who asserts that night and day must follow each other is for the existence of light and darkness. To me the policy of neglect, approved by Mr. Gladstone's Government, has always seemed the immediate and main cause of the Afghan war." Sir Bartle's own policy, on the other hand, he describes as " the advance into Afghanistan of a friend and a neighbour, anxious to cultivate friendly relations and prevent war." Well, the advance was made strictly on the lines of Sir Bartle Frere's Memorandum, and the Afghan war followed as a natural consequence. Sir Bartle Frere disputes this. But he might just as well dispute, to quote his own simile, the sequence of light and darkness as the result of the diurnal revolution of the earth. For forty years the opposite policy to his prevailed in our relations with the Afghans and Zulus, and the result was peace; At the end of the forty years Sir Bartle Frere's policy was tried, in spite of the teaching of experience and the warnings of our wisest statesmen, and the result has been war. Against these stub- born facts Sir Bartle Frere's special pleading is of no avail. In the condemnation of his contemporaries he may read the ver- dict of history. Mr. Gladstone's policy he denounces as that of one " acting on the principles of Cain," and " following the practice of the cautious priest and selfish Levite, fearing to increase their responsibilities by helping their senseless and wounded neighbour." But surely even " the practice of the cautious priest and selfish Levite " is preferable to that of the robbers who rendered their neighbour " senseless and wounded ;" and it requires very subtle casuistry to distinguish the morality of the Afghan and Zulu wars from the morality of the men who stript the wayfarer on the road to Jericho and left him bleeding and half-dead. We are thankful that a man so fanatically and sincerely colour-blind as to the funda- mental laws of political morality, no longer occupies a position of official responsibility"
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War.   Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptySun Jul 20, 2014 7:32 pm

I once in this place called Bartle-Frere ' a maverick scheming zealot ' and
of course, met with resistance! would anyone care to defend his policy's?.
and in the event his grand plan for ' Confederation ' came to naught.. it
was decided years later by the creation of the union of South Africa.
Back to top Go down
Ray63

Ray63


Posts : 705
Join date : 2012-05-05

Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War.   Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptySun Jul 20, 2014 8:15 pm

Those that put him in place, knew exactly was he was put there for!
Back to top Go down
24th

24th


Posts : 1862
Join date : 2009-03-25

Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War.   Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptySun Jul 20, 2014 10:15 pm

Shocked Ray I we talking yet another scapegoat?
Back to top Go down
6pdr

6pdr


Posts : 1086
Join date : 2012-05-12
Location : NYC

Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War.   Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyMon Jul 21, 2014 3:18 pm

Ray63 wrote:
Those that put him in place, knew exactly was he was put there for!

I agree with that in general. The intention of confederating S. Africa based upon the Canadian model was probably his brief.  

There was however a question of how and when he did it.  Frere was in a great rush which is why things like the findings of the Boundary Commission (which Anthony Durnford sat on,) were extremely inconvenient to him.  It's also why he put everybody on the clock on trumped up charges with his Ultimatum. He did not seek the government's input because an expensive military incursion was NOT something desired by London.

Britain had its hands full in Afghanistan (in particular) and was already preoccupied other imperial adventures. The Exchequer didn't want more put on its plate.  Since the locals didn't even like paying for a garrison force they certainly weren't going to fund a war...and the budget was already stretched.
Back to top Go down
6pdr

6pdr


Posts : 1086
Join date : 2012-05-12
Location : NYC

Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War.   Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyMon Jul 21, 2014 3:24 pm

24th wrote:
Shocked Ray I we talking yet another scapegoat?

I have never read an established historian which does not hold Frere at least in part responsible. He was the man with a plan. Chelmsford was his agent. They both held on for a little while after Isandlwana but the handwriting was on the wall. That isn't scapegoating, it's history.
Back to top Go down
Mr M. Cooper

Mr M. Cooper


Posts : 2591
Join date : 2011-09-29
Location : Lancashire, England.

Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War.   Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War. EmptyThu Jul 24, 2014 12:05 pm

Spot on 6pdr.

Frere had an agenda and LC was his tool, they both underestimated the zulus response to their overconfident and arrogant 'walk in the park' attitude, and this caused the needless deaths and suffering of thousands of people, and they did all this without the consent of the British people and their government. Like you say, this isn't scapegoating, it's history, and they should hang their heads in shame.

Scapegoating is what LC and his cronies did to Col Durnford, and some people still believe the web of deceit and lies that was spun back then to save LC's backside, they blackened the name of a brave honourable soldier in an effort to save LC getting the blame, shame on them all.
Back to top Go down
 
Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion on what cause of the Zulu War.
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» What was Sir Bartle Frere’s opinion of the disaster at Isandlwana?
» Sir Bartle Frere and Lord Chelmsford (Zulu Dawn)
» Bartle- Frere

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: