Latest topics | » Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Tue Nov 19, 2024 10:05 am by Tig Van Milcroft » Dr. A. Ralph BusbySun Nov 17, 2024 11:25 pm by Julian Whybra » Lieutenant M.G. Wales, 1st Natal Native ContingentSat Nov 16, 2024 12:32 pm by Matthew Turl » Colonel Edward William Bray, 2nd/4th Regt.Fri Nov 15, 2024 9:55 pm by Julian Whybra » Royal Marine Light Infantry, ChathamThu Nov 14, 2024 7:57 pm by Petty Officer Tom » H.M.S. ForesterThu Nov 14, 2024 4:07 pm by johnex » Samuel PoppleWed Nov 13, 2024 8:43 am by STEPHEN JAMES » Studies in the Zulu War volume VI now availableSat Nov 09, 2024 6:38 pm by Julian Whybra » Colonel Charles Knight PearsonFri Nov 08, 2024 5:56 pm by LincolnJDH » Grave of Henry SpaldingThu Nov 07, 2024 8:10 pm by 1879graves » John West at KambulaThu Nov 07, 2024 5:25 pm by MKalny15 » Private Frederick Evans 2/24thSun Nov 03, 2024 8:12 pm by Dash » How to find medal entitlement CokerSun Nov 03, 2024 10:51 am by Kev T » Isandlwana Casualty - McCathie/McCarthySat Nov 02, 2024 1:40 pm by Julian Whybra » William Jones CommentFri Nov 01, 2024 6:07 pm by Eddie » Brother of Lt YoungFri Nov 01, 2024 5:13 pm by Eddie » Frederick Marsh - HMS TenedosFri Nov 01, 2024 9:48 am by lydenburg » Mr Spiers KIA iSandlwana ?Fri Nov 01, 2024 7:50 am by Julian Whybra » Isandhlwana unaccounted for casualtiesFri Nov 01, 2024 7:48 am by Julian Whybra » Thrupps report to Surgeon General Wolfies Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:32 pm by Julian Whybra » Absence of Vereker from Snook's BookFri Oct 25, 2024 10:59 pm by Julian Whybra » Another Actor related to the Degacher-Hitchcock familyMon Oct 21, 2024 1:07 pm by Stefaan » No. 799 George Williams and his son-in-law No. 243 Thomas NewmanSat Oct 19, 2024 12:36 pm by Dash » Alphonse de Neuville- Painting the Defence of Rorke's DriftFri Oct 18, 2024 8:34 am by Stefaan » Studies in the Zulu War volumesWed Oct 16, 2024 3:26 pm by Julian Whybra » Martini Henry carbine IC1 markingsMon Oct 14, 2024 10:48 pm by Parkerbloggs » James Conner 1879 claspMon Oct 14, 2024 7:12 pm by Kenny » 80th REG of Foot (Staffords)Sun Oct 13, 2024 9:07 pm by shadeswolf » Frontier Light Horse uniformSun Oct 13, 2024 8:12 pm by Schlaumeier » Gelsthorpe, G. 1374 Private 1/24th / Scott, Sidney W. 521 Private 1/24thSun Oct 13, 2024 1:00 pm by Dash » A Bullet BibleSat Oct 12, 2024 8:33 am by Julian Whybra » Brothers SearsFri Oct 11, 2024 7:17 pm by Eddie » Zulu War Medal MHS TamarFri Oct 11, 2024 3:48 pm by philip c » Ford Park Cemetery, Plymouth.Tue Oct 08, 2024 4:15 pm by rai » Shipping - transport in the AZWSun Oct 06, 2024 10:47 pm by Bill8183 |
November 2024 | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri | Sat | Sun |
---|
| | | | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | | Calendar |
|
Top posting users this month | |
New topics | » Dr. A. Ralph BusbySat Nov 16, 2024 11:36 am by Julian Whybra » Colonel Edward William Bray, 2nd/4th Regt.Wed Nov 13, 2024 8:49 pm by John Young » Samuel PoppleTue Nov 12, 2024 3:36 pm by STEPHEN JAMES » Colonel Charles Knight PearsonFri Nov 08, 2024 5:56 pm by LincolnJDH » John West at KambulaMon Nov 04, 2024 11:54 pm by MKalny15 » How to find medal entitlement CokerFri Nov 01, 2024 9:32 am by Kev T » Frederick Marsh - HMS TenedosThu Oct 31, 2024 1:42 pm by lydenburg » Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Mon Oct 28, 2024 8:18 am by SRB1965 » Thrupps report to Surgeon General Wolfies Sun Oct 27, 2024 11:32 am by SRB1965 |
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. |
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address.
Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.
If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.
We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes.
There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site.
The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum.
The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. |
Fair Use Notice | Fair use notice.
This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner.
We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes.
We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website.
If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution. |
|
| Red Coats Black Coats | |
| | Author | Message |
---|
24th
Posts : 1862 Join date : 2009-03-25
| Subject: Red Coats Black Coats Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:02 am | |
| Is it true the Zulu's who fought at Isandlwana were ordered not to kill anyone wearing a Black coat. If. It is what was the reason for this. Even though they were not wearing red coats they were still there to fight against the zulu, So why not kill every body. They killed the horses because they carried the white man into Zululand and they killed the Cattle because they fed the white man in Zululand So why not kill those wearing black coats, |
| | | mons14
Posts : 101 Join date : 2009-10-28
| Subject: Re: Red Coats Black Coats Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:11 am | |
| I had understood through my readings that the Zulus were especially focused on the 'Red soldier' and thoes that did not fit that description would have had a slightly greater chance of escape.
It certainly did not make them safe from the slaughter - maybe less of a focus.
However with that said, the climax of battle saw the Zulus stabbing anything that moved. Some were in such a frenzy to kill that they were stabbing at sacks of food, boxes etc. anything that was in their path. |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10909 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: red coats - black coats. Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:32 am | |
| hi all. Mons14 , once again I agree, cetswayo certainly had them focused on " eating up the Red soldier ". Curiously all the officers that survived were wearing the " Blue Patrol Jacket ". All FIVE of them. CURLING , ESSEX , GARDNER , SMITH - DORRIEN and COCHRANE. cheers 90th. |
| | | Dave
Posts : 1603 Join date : 2009-09-21
| Subject: Re: Red Coats Black Coats Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:39 pm | |
| I rode, revolver in hand, right through the Zulus, but they completely ignored me. I heard afterwards that they had been told by their King Cetywayo that black coats were civilians and were not worth killing.I had a blue patrol jacket on, and it is noticeable that the only five officers who escaped—Essex, Cochrane, Gardner, Curling, and myself—had blue coats. The Zulus throughout my escape seemed to be set on killing natives who had sided with us, either as fighting levies or transport drivers. After getting through the mass of Zulus busy slaying, I followed in the line of fugitives. The outer horns of the Zulu Army had been directed to meet at about a mile to the south-east of the camp, and they were still some distance apart when the retreat commenced. It was this gap which fixed the line of retreat.
I could see the Zulus running in to complete their circle from both flanks, and their leading men had already reached the line of retreat long before I had got there. When I reached the point I came on the two guns, which must have been sent out of camp before the Zulus charged home. They appeared to me to be upset in a donga and to be surrounded by Zulus.
Again I rode through unheeded, and shortly after was passed by Lieutenant Coghill (24th), wearing a blue patrol and cord breeches and riding a red roan horse. We had just exchanged remarks about the terrible disaster, and he passed on towards Fugitives' Drift. A little farther on I caught up Lieutenant Curling, R.A., and spoke to him, pointing out to him that the Zulus were all round and urging him to push on, which he did. My own broken-kneed transport pony was done to a turn and incapable of rapid progress.
The ground was terribly bad going, all rocks and boulders, and it was about three or four miles from camp to Fugitives' Drift. When approaching this Drift, and at least half a mile behind Coghill, Lieutenant Melvill (24th), in a red coat and with a cased Colour across the front of his saddle, passed me going to the Drift. I reported afterwards that the Colour was broken; but as the pole was found eventually whole, I think the casing must have been half off and hanging down. It will thus be seen that Coghill (who was Orderly Officer to Colonel Glynn) and Melvill (who was Adjutant) did not escape together with the Colour. How Coghill came to be in the camp I do not know, as Colonel Glynn, whose orderly officer he was, was out with Lord Chelmsford's column.
Source: Memories of Forty-Eight Years Service |
| | | John
Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 62 Location : UK
| Subject: Re: Red Coats Black Coats Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:14 pm | |
| - Quote :
- Again I rode through unheeded, and shortly after was passed by Lieutenant Coghill (24th), wearing a blue patrol and cord breeches and riding a red roan horse.
He died. |
| | | 1879graves
Posts : 3387 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon
| Subject: Re: Red Coats Black Coats Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:16 pm | |
| |
| | | 1879graves
Posts : 3387 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon
| Subject: Re: Red Coats Black Coats Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:44 pm | |
| |
| | | mons14
Posts : 101 Join date : 2009-10-28
| Subject: Re: Red Coats Black Coats Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:51 pm | |
| Having a blue, black, brown or no uniform at all did not make a soldier safe - all were enemy combatants and were fair game to Zulu. There were hundreds of soldiers other then Red-coats killed at Isandlwana.
They may have had a special interest in the Red soldier, but any man on the field of battle that day was seen as the enemy. |
| | | mons14
Posts : 101 Join date : 2009-10-28
| Subject: Re: Red Coats Black Coats Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:30 pm | |
| Follow up to my last post... This is an early Forsyth roll (c1970's) of thoes killed at Isandlwana. I'm not an expert on uniforms, but would suggest thoes members of the 1st and 2nd 24th Regt. seen below were probably the only ones wearing red. Also take note of the numbers of natives assumed to have died - 471 including non-combatants. I would conclude that despite orders to kill all in a red coat, any other soldiers (or otherwise) on the British side were also considered targets that day. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] |
| | | 1879graves
Posts : 3387 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon
| Subject: Re: Red Coats Black Coats Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:57 pm | |
| - mons14 wrote:
I would conclude that despite orders to kill all in a red coat, any other soldiers (or otherwise) on the British side were also considered targets that day. Hi mons14 I would have to agree with your quote, If you look at the list of killed, apart from the Royal Engineers & the 24th, all the other units would not have worn red. They were all targets on the day. |
| | | Chelmsfordthescapegoat
Posts : 2593 Join date : 2009-04-24
| Subject: Re: Red Coats Black Coats Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:34 pm | |
| 471 Natives Killed. They wore RED Arm Bands. |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10909 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: red coats - black coats. Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:51 am | |
| hi ctsg. Dont mean to be picky , but the N.N.C wore red headbands not arm bands . cheers 90th. |
| | | 1879graves
Posts : 3387 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon
| Subject: Re: Red Coats Black Coats Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:39 am | |
| The bulk of the N.N.C. had fled from the field at an early stage, about 12h45 or 13h00, but by this time the Undi Corps were already across the track to Rorke's Drift so that they were forced to follow a more direct route to the Buffalo River which led under the slopes of Black's Koppie. Observing this, Dabulamanzi sent the inDlu-yengwe to attack them in the flank and although many had already cast away their weapons, headbands or any other signs of allegiance to the British in the hopes of becoming unrecognisable, most were discovered and killed although some managed to escape |
| | | 1879graves
Posts : 3387 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon
| Subject: Re: Red Coats Black Coats Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:44 am | |
| The main elements of the army which was to oppose the centre column concentrated on the Ulundi plain and on 17 January was mustered at the Nodwengu military kraal to receive instruction from the king. As he had no details of the British plan these could be of a general nature only. The army was to move slowly to conserve its energies and to attack by daylight, probably because of the difficulty of communication by night. The warriors were warned not to enter Natal and to kill the soldiers who could be recognised by their red coats. |
| | | | Red Coats Black Coats | |
|
Similar topics | |
|
| Permissions in this forum: | You cannot reply to topics in this forum
| |
| |
| |