WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu. Lieutenant John Chard: The army doesn't like more than one disaster in a day. Bromhead: Looks bad in the newspapers and upsets civilians at their breakfast.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  Latest imagesLatest images  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyTue Nov 19, 2024 10:05 am by Tig Van Milcroft

» Dr. A. Ralph Busby
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptySun Nov 17, 2024 11:25 pm by Julian Whybra

» Lieutenant M.G. Wales, 1st Natal Native Contingent
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptySat Nov 16, 2024 12:32 pm by Matthew Turl

» Colonel Edward William Bray, 2nd/4th Regt.
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyFri Nov 15, 2024 9:55 pm by Julian Whybra

» Royal Marine Light Infantry, Chatham
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyThu Nov 14, 2024 7:57 pm by Petty Officer Tom

» H.M.S. Forester
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyThu Nov 14, 2024 4:07 pm by johnex

» Samuel Popple
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyWed Nov 13, 2024 8:43 am by STEPHEN JAMES

» Studies in the Zulu War volume VI now available
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptySat Nov 09, 2024 6:38 pm by Julian Whybra

» Colonel Charles Knight Pearson
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyFri Nov 08, 2024 5:56 pm by LincolnJDH

» Grave of Henry Spalding
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyThu Nov 07, 2024 8:10 pm by 1879graves

» John West at Kambula
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyThu Nov 07, 2024 5:25 pm by MKalny15

» Private Frederick Evans 2/24th
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptySun Nov 03, 2024 8:12 pm by Dash

» How to find medal entitlement Coker
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptySun Nov 03, 2024 10:51 am by Kev T

» Isandlwana Casualty - McCathie/McCarthy
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptySat Nov 02, 2024 1:40 pm by Julian Whybra

» William Jones Comment
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 6:07 pm by Eddie

» Brother of Lt Young
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 5:13 pm by Eddie

» Frederick Marsh - HMS Tenedos
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 9:48 am by lydenburg

» Mr Spiers KIA iSandlwana ?
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 7:50 am by Julian Whybra

» Isandhlwana unaccounted for casualties
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 7:48 am by Julian Whybra

» Thrupps report to Surgeon General Wolfies
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyThu Oct 31, 2024 12:32 pm by Julian Whybra

» Absence of Vereker from Snook's Book
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyFri Oct 25, 2024 10:59 pm by Julian Whybra

» Another Actor related to the Degacher-Hitchcock family
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyMon Oct 21, 2024 1:07 pm by Stefaan

» No. 799 George Williams and his son-in-law No. 243 Thomas Newman
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptySat Oct 19, 2024 12:36 pm by Dash

» Alphonse de Neuville- Painting the Defence of Rorke's Drift
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyFri Oct 18, 2024 8:34 am by Stefaan

» Studies in the Zulu War volumes
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyWed Oct 16, 2024 3:26 pm by Julian Whybra

» Martini Henry carbine IC1 markings
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyMon Oct 14, 2024 10:48 pm by Parkerbloggs

» James Conner 1879 clasp
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyMon Oct 14, 2024 7:12 pm by Kenny

» 80th REG of Foot (Staffords)
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptySun Oct 13, 2024 9:07 pm by shadeswolf

» Frontier Light Horse uniform
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptySun Oct 13, 2024 8:12 pm by Schlaumeier

» Gelsthorpe, G. 1374 Private 1/24th / Scott, Sidney W. 521 Private 1/24th
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptySun Oct 13, 2024 1:00 pm by Dash

» A Bullet Bible
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptySat Oct 12, 2024 8:33 am by Julian Whybra

» Brothers Sears
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyFri Oct 11, 2024 7:17 pm by Eddie

» Zulu War Medal MHS Tamar
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyFri Oct 11, 2024 3:48 pm by philip c

» Ford Park Cemetery, Plymouth.
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyTue Oct 08, 2024 4:15 pm by rai

» Shipping - transport in the AZW
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptySun Oct 06, 2024 10:47 pm by Bill8183

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
November 2024
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
    123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
252627282930 
CalendarCalendar
Most active topics
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Please Do Not Post Ads on Our Forum
Google Chrome new standards imposed
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
In deference to other online platforms discussing the history of the Anglo-Zulu War of 1879
The missing five hours.
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
The ammunition question
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Top posting users this month
Julian Whybra
Horace Smith-Dorrien Bar_leftHorace Smith-Dorrien BarHorace Smith-Dorrien Bar_right 
Tig Van Milcroft
Horace Smith-Dorrien Bar_leftHorace Smith-Dorrien BarHorace Smith-Dorrien Bar_right 
Dash
Horace Smith-Dorrien Bar_leftHorace Smith-Dorrien BarHorace Smith-Dorrien Bar_right 
SRB1965
Horace Smith-Dorrien Bar_leftHorace Smith-Dorrien BarHorace Smith-Dorrien Bar_right 
Eddie
Horace Smith-Dorrien Bar_leftHorace Smith-Dorrien BarHorace Smith-Dorrien Bar_right 
warrior3
Horace Smith-Dorrien Bar_leftHorace Smith-Dorrien BarHorace Smith-Dorrien Bar_right 
1879graves
Horace Smith-Dorrien Bar_leftHorace Smith-Dorrien BarHorace Smith-Dorrien Bar_right 
aussie inkosi
Horace Smith-Dorrien Bar_leftHorace Smith-Dorrien BarHorace Smith-Dorrien Bar_right 
John Young
Horace Smith-Dorrien Bar_leftHorace Smith-Dorrien BarHorace Smith-Dorrien Bar_right 
Kev T
Horace Smith-Dorrien Bar_leftHorace Smith-Dorrien BarHorace Smith-Dorrien Bar_right 
New topics
» Dr. A. Ralph Busby
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptySat Nov 16, 2024 11:36 am by Julian Whybra

» Colonel Edward William Bray, 2nd/4th Regt.
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyWed Nov 13, 2024 8:49 pm by John Young

» Samuel Popple
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyTue Nov 12, 2024 3:36 pm by STEPHEN JAMES

» Colonel Charles Knight Pearson
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyFri Nov 08, 2024 5:56 pm by LincolnJDH

» John West at Kambula
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyMon Nov 04, 2024 11:54 pm by MKalny15

» How to find medal entitlement Coker
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 9:32 am by Kev T

» Frederick Marsh - HMS Tenedos
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyThu Oct 31, 2024 1:42 pm by lydenburg

» Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyMon Oct 28, 2024 8:18 am by SRB1965

» Thrupps report to Surgeon General Wolfies
Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptySun Oct 27, 2024 11:32 am by SRB1965

Similar topics
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying.
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address. Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.  If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.  We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes. There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site. The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum. The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
 

 Horace Smith-Dorrien

Go down 
+4
John
littlehand
1879graves
24th
8 posters
AuthorMessage
24th

24th


Posts : 1862
Join date : 2009-03-25

Horace Smith-Dorrien Empty
PostSubject: Horace Smith-Dorrien   Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptySat May 09, 2009 12:03 am

Horace Smith-Dorrien was born at Haresfoot, Berkhamsted, the 11th child of 15. He was educated at Harrow, and on 26 February 1876 entered the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst, passing out with a commission as a subaltern to the 95th (Derbyshire) Regiment of Foot. On 1 November 1878, he was posted to South Africa where he worked as a transport officer. In this role he encountered, and fought against, corruption in the army.

Zulu Wars: Smith-Dorrien was present at the Battle of Isandlwana on 22 January 1879, serving with the British invasion force as a transport officer for the army's Royal Artillery detachment. As Zulu forces overran the British forces, Smith-Dorrien narrowly escaped on his transport pony. As such, Smith-Dorrien was one of fewer than fifty white survivors of the battle. His observations on the difficulty of opening ammunition boxes led to changes in British practice for the rest of the war, though modern commentators argue that this was not as an important factor in the defeat as was thought at the time. Because of his conduct in trying to help other soldiers during his dramatic escape from the battlefield, he was nominated for a Victoria Cross, but, as the nomination did not go through the proper channels, he never received it. He took part in the rest of that war.

Egypt 1882–7: He later served in Egypt on police duties, being appointed assistant chief of police in Alexandria on 22 August 1882. During this time, he forged a life-long friendship with Lord Kitchener. On 30 December 1885, he witnessed the Battle of Gennis, where the British Army fought in red coats for the last time. The next day he was given an independent command and, following a bold military action where he went beyond his orders, he was awarded the Distinguished Service Order.

From 1887–9, Smith-Dorrien then left active command to go to the Staff College, Camberley.

India: He returned to his regiment where he commanded troops during the Tirah campaign of 1897–98.

Egypt and Sudan: In 1898, he transferred back to Egypt and fought at the Battle of Omdurman and commanded the British troops during the Fashoda incident. During this time, he was promoted to the rank of Colonel.

Second Boer War: On 31 October 1899, he shipped to South Africa, arriving on 13 December. On 2 February 1900, Lord Roberts put him in command of 19 Brigade and, on 11 February, he was promoted to Major-General. He played an important role at the Battle of Paardeberg (18 February to 27 February 1900), steering Lord Kitchener and Henry Colville away from tactics of attacking an entrenched enemy over open ground. At Sanna's Post (31 March 1900), Smith-Dorrien ignored inept orders from Colville to leave wounded largely unprotected and managed an orderly retreat without further casualties. He took part in the Battle of Leliefontein (7 November 1900). On 6 February 1901, Smith-Dorrien's troops were attacked in the Battle of Chrissiesmeer. Smith-Dorrien's qualities as a commander meant he was one of a very few British commanders to enhance his reputation during this war.

India: On 22 April 1901, he received orders to return to India where he was made Adjutant General 6th November 1901) under Kitchener. He was placed in command of the 4th Division in Baluchistan, a post he held until 1907. In the dispute between Kitchener and Lord Curzon over the role of the Military Member, Smith-Dorrien stayed neutral, torn between his relations with Kitchener and with the Military Member himself, Sir Arthur Power Palmer.

He returned to England to become GOC of the Aldershot training base. During this time, he instituted a number of reforms designed to improve the lot of the ordinary soldier. One was to abandon the practice of posting pickets to police the soldiers when they were outside the base. Another was to improve sports facilities. His reforms earned many plaudits (but were treated as an implied criticism by his predecessor, Sir John French).

He improved the frequency and methods of training in marksmanship of all soldiers. During this period, the higher ranks of the army were divided on the best use of cavalry. Smith-Dorrien, along with Lord Roberts and Sir Ian Hamilton and others, doubted that cavalry could often be used as cavalry, thinking they would be more often deployed as mounted infantry. To this end, he took steps to improve the marksmanship of the cavalry. This did not endear him to the 'pro-cavalry' faction, which included French and Douglas Haig.

He also tried to get the army to purchase better machine-guns.

Although Smith-Dorrien was perfectly urbane and, by the standards of the day, kind-hearted towards his troops, he was notorious for furious outbursts of bad temper, which could last for hours before his equilibrium was restored. It has been suggested that the pain from a knee injury was one cause his ill temper.

In 1911, he was made Aide-de-Camp to King George V. He was part of the king's hunt in the Chitwan area of Nepal; on 19 December 1911, Smith-Dorrien killed a rhino and on the following day shot a bear.

On 1 March 1912, he was appointed GOC Southern Command and on 10 August 1912 he was promoted to full General.

Unlike French, he was politically astute enough to avoid becoming entangled in the Curragh Incident of 1914.

With the outbreak of the Great War, he was given command of the Home Defence Army; however, following the sudden death of Sir James Grierson, he was placed in charge of the British Expeditionary Force II Corps, by Lord Kitchener, the new Secretary of State for War. Field Marshal Sir John French had wanted Sir Herbert Plumer but Kitchener chose Smith-Dorrien as he knew he could stand up to French.

Smith-Dorrien's II Corps took the brunt of a heavy assault by the German forces at Mons, with the Germans under von Kluck attempting a flanking manoeuvre. French ordered a general retreat, during which I Corps (under General Douglas Haig) and II Corps became separated. Haig's I Corps did not reach its intended position to the immediate east of Le Cateau.

Le Cateau (26 August 1914)

Smith-Dorrien, now at Le Cateau, saw that his isolated forces were in danger of being overwhelmed in a piecemeal fashion. He decided instead to concentrate his corps, supplemented by Allenby's cavalry and the 4th Division of Thomas D'Oyly Snow. On 26 August 1914, he mounted a vigorous defensive action, a "stopping blow", which despite heavy casualties, halted the German advance. With the BEF saved, he resumed an orderly retreat.

His decision to stand and fight enraged French who accused Smith-Dorrien of jeopardising the whole BEF, an accusation which did not amuse Smith-Dorrien's fellow corps commander, Haig, who already believed French to be incompetent.

Smith-Dorrien's II Corps took part in the First Battle of the Marne and the First Battle of the Aisne before the British were moved north to be closer to their supply lines.

First Battle of Ypres

The battle for Hill 60 was a notable struggle here. A defensive line at Neuve Chapelle became known as the Smith-Dorrien Trench (or, sometimes, the Smith-Dorrien Line). On 26 December 1914, Smith-Dorrien took command of the Second Army.

Second Battle of Ypres

In this battle, the British were defending an untenable salient. On 22 April 1915, the Germans used poison gas on the Western Front for the first time and heavy casualties were sustained. On 27 April, Smith-Dorrien recommended withdrawal to a more defensible front line. On 30 April, Haig wrote in his diary

Sir John also told me Smith-Dorrien had caused him much trouble. 'He was quite unfit (he said)] to hold the Command of an Army' so Sir J. had withdrawn all troops from him control except the II Corps. Yet Smith-D. stayed on! He would not resign!] French is to ask Lord Kitchener to find something to do at home. … He also alluded to Smith-Dorrien's conduct on the retreat, and said he ought to have tried him by Court Martial, because (on the day of Le Cateau) he 'had ordered him to retire at 8 am and he did not attempt to do so but insisted on fighting in spite of his orders to retire]'.

French used the 'pessimism' of the withdrawal recommendation as an excuse to sack Smith-Dorrien on 6 May. His replacement, Herbert Plumer, then recommended a withdrawal almost identical to that proposed by Smith-Dorrien, which French accepted. In December 1915, French himself was removed by Kitchener; Douglas Haig then replaced French as commander of the BEF.

French later wrote a partial and inaccurate account of the opening of the war in his book 1914, which attacked Smith-Dorrien. Smith-Dorrien, as a serving officer, was denied permission to reply in public.

Remainder of the war

After a period in Britain, Smith-Dorrien was assigned a command to fight the Germans in German East Africa (present day Tanzania, Rwanda, and Burundi) but pneumonia contracted during the voyage to South Africa prevented him from taking command. His former adversary, Jan Smuts, took on this command. Smith-Dorrien took no significant military part in the rest of the war. On 29 January 1917, Smith-Dorrien was appointed lieutenant of the Tower of London.

Final years

His next position was as Governor of Gibraltar from 9 July 1918 – 26 May 1923, where he introduced an element of democracy and closed some brothels. According to Wyndham Childs in the summer of 1918, Horace tried, and nearly succeeded, in uniting the Comrades of the Great War, the National Association of Discharged Sailors and Soldiers, and the National Federation of Discharged and Demobilized Sailors and Soldiers into one body. The merger later took place in 1921 to form the British Legion.

He retired in September 1923, living in Portugal and then England. He devoted much his time to the welfare and remembrance of Great War soldiers. He worked on his memoirs, which were published in 1925. As French was still alive at the time of writing, he still felt unable to rebut 1914. Despite his treatment by French, in 1925, he acted as a pallbearer at French's funeral, an act appreciated by French's son.

He played himself in the film The Battle of Mons, released in 1926.

He died on 12 August 1930 following injuries sustained in a car accident in Chippenham, Wiltshire; he was 72 years old. He is buried in Berkhamsted.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Lt. Horace Lockwood Smith-Dorrien, Hythe, 1878

Photo Copyright ©️ John. Young
Back to top Go down
1879graves

1879graves


Posts : 3387
Join date : 2009-03-03
Location : Devon

Horace Smith-Dorrien Empty
PostSubject: Re: Horace Smith-Dorrien   Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyFri Jun 26, 2009 10:42 am

See Pictorial catalogue of AZW graves.
Back to top Go down
http://zuluwar1879.tribalpages.com
littlehand

littlehand


Posts : 7076
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 56
Location : Down South.

Horace Smith-Dorrien Empty
PostSubject: Re: Horace Smith-Dorrien   Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptySun Aug 08, 2010 9:35 pm

For those interested.Horace Smith-Dorrien. He played himself in the film The Battle of Mons, released in 1926.

If someone could post the 1926 Version it would be appricate.

Back to top Go down
John

John


Posts : 2558
Join date : 2009-04-06
Age : 62
Location : UK

Horace Smith-Dorrien Empty
PostSubject: Re: Horace Smith-Dorrien   Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyMon Feb 11, 2013 6:44 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
Ray63

Ray63


Posts : 705
Join date : 2012-05-05

Horace Smith-Dorrien Empty
PostSubject: Re: Horace Smith-Dorrien   Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyMon Feb 11, 2013 7:15 pm

Thanks for that John. Interesting. Like to see that statue he was given on his wedding day.
Back to top Go down
littlehand

littlehand


Posts : 7076
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 56
Location : Down South.

Horace Smith-Dorrien Empty
PostSubject: Re: Horace Smith-Dorrien   Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyTue Feb 12, 2013 4:10 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]





Back to top Go down
1879graves

1879graves


Posts : 3387
Join date : 2009-03-03
Location : Devon

Horace Smith-Dorrien Empty
PostSubject: Re: Horace Smith-Dorrien   Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyFri Apr 05, 2013 10:05 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Gloucester Citizen, Thursday 04 September 1902.
Back to top Go down
http://zuluwar1879.tribalpages.com
littlehand

littlehand


Posts : 7076
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 56
Location : Down South.

Horace Smith-Dorrien Empty
PostSubject: Re: Horace Smith-Dorrien   Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyMon Sep 02, 2013 11:55 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
6pdr

6pdr


Posts : 1086
Join date : 2012-05-12
Location : NYC

Horace Smith-Dorrien Empty
PostSubject: Re: Horace Smith-Dorrien   Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 1:18 pm

24th wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Lt. Horace Lockwood Smith-Dorrien, Hythe, 1878
Thanks very much for this 24th! There are many, many more images of him as a senior officer than early in life. Salute Salute 
Back to top Go down
6pdr

6pdr


Posts : 1086
Join date : 2012-05-12
Location : NYC

Horace Smith-Dorrien Empty
PostSubject: Re: Horace Smith-Dorrien   Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyFri Sep 06, 2013 4:40 pm

littlehand wrote:
For those interested.Horace Smith-Dorrien. He played himself in the film The Battle of Mons, released in 1926.
This is really something. Does it go on to cover Le Cateau? That was the battle that originally got me fascinated with Smith-Dorrien and eventually led back to Isandlwana and the AZW.
Back to top Go down
littlehand

littlehand


Posts : 7076
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 56
Location : Down South.

Horace Smith-Dorrien Empty
PostSubject: Re: Horace Smith-Dorrien   Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyMon Aug 11, 2014 10:54 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
littlehand

littlehand


Posts : 7076
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 56
Location : Down South.

Horace Smith-Dorrien Empty
PostSubject: Re: Horace Smith-Dorrien   Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyMon Aug 11, 2014 11:25 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
littlehand

littlehand


Posts : 7076
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 56
Location : Down South.

Horace Smith-Dorrien Empty
PostSubject: Re: Horace Smith-Dorrien   Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyTue Aug 12, 2014 12:02 am

Not the man I thought he was, gone down somewhat as one of my Favorite personaties of the Zulu War and WW1

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
littlehand

littlehand


Posts : 7076
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 56
Location : Down South.

Horace Smith-Dorrien Empty
PostSubject: Re: Horace Smith-Dorrien   Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyTue Aug 12, 2014 12:10 am

Pete can you add this to SD memorial page.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
The Sir Horace Smith-Dorrien Memorial at the foot of the "CRICH
STAND"


Click Here History of Crich Stand
Back to top Go down
littlehand

littlehand


Posts : 7076
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 56
Location : Down South.

Horace Smith-Dorrien Empty
PostSubject: Re: Horace Smith-Dorrien   Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyTue Aug 12, 2014 12:33 am

His Grave in 2010

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]



"Horace Lockwood Smith-Dorrien
SUNDAY, 13 JUNE 2010 18:53 TERRY JACKSON
On a recent trip to the Chemin des Dames, I called in at Berkhamstead. This was to enable me to visit the grave of Horace Lockwood Smith-Dorrien.

He was in charge of II Corps at Mons and Le Cateau. Later he was in command of 2nd Army at Ypres. Due to the malevolence of John French, he was sent home after he advised French to shorten the line, following Second Ypres. Plumer who took over his command, made the same suggestion, to which French readily agreed.

This controversial action stemmed from French's anger with Smith-Dorrien who had succeeded him at Aldershot in 1907. French sent out piquets to mop up soldiers from the town. Smith-Dorrien believed professional soldiers could be trusted to act responsibly and ended the system. He also provided more leisure facilities, entertainment and showers.

This rankled French, who believed his authority had been undermined. Furthermore, when Grierson died en route to the front, French asked for Plumer as a replacement. Kitchener thought Plumer would not stand up to French, so sent Smith-Dorrien instead.

Smith-Dorrien had also good contacts with the King. One can imagine French's face when Smith-Dorrien told French that the King had asked him to keep him informed of what was going on.

After the retreat from Mons, French wanted II Corps to continue to retreat. However, many of the troops arrived late and exhausted at Le Cateau. Smith-Dorrien realised their only hope was to fight and gave battle on 26 August. Whilst there were substantial casualties, current opinion is that it was the correct decision. Initially French praised Smith-Dorrien, but in his post war book "1914", he virtually libelled Smith-Dorrien over Le Cateau and was seen for the obnoxious person he was.

Smith-Dorrien returned home and never held a major command again, mainly due to illness. It was typical of his professionalism that he asked to be a pall bearer at French's funeral in 1925. Later he governed Malta, but moved to France to live more cheaply. On a visit to England in 1930, he died following injuries sustained as a passenger in a car crash. (Ironically he had survived the massacre of Isandlwana in 1879).

French was a notorious womaniser and often in debt. He owed Haig a substantial sum of money for a long time. He was sacked after Loos and replaced by Haig. He was seconded by Lloyd George in 1918 along with Henry Wilson in an attempt to curb Haig's campaigns.

Smith-Dorrien's grave is in a now disused cemetery and unfortunately has become overgrown. I tried to tidy it up, but much needs to be done. I have been in touch with Andrew Gould, Chairman of the Hertfordshire and Bedfordshire Branch of the WFA. He was at school in Berkhamstead and has promised to see if something can be done. 12 August is the 80th anniversary of his death. If some restoration could be done, it would be a fitting memorial to Smith-Dorrien."
Source: Western Front Association.

Why does the name "Tim" come to mind!
Back to top Go down
Chard1879

Chard1879


Posts : 1261
Join date : 2010-04-12

Horace Smith-Dorrien Empty
PostSubject: Re: Horace Smith-Dorrien   Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyWed Aug 13, 2014 12:04 am

littlehand wrote:
Pete can you add this to SD memorial page.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
The Sir Horace Smith-Dorrien Memorial at the foot of the "CRICH
STAND"


Click Here History of Crich Stand

LH interesting post.  agree
Back to top Go down
24th

24th


Posts : 1862
Join date : 2009-03-25

Horace Smith-Dorrien Empty
PostSubject: Re: Horace Smith-Dorrien   Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyWed Aug 13, 2014 7:48 pm

Shame about his grave.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Horace Smith-Dorrien Empty
PostSubject: Re: Horace Smith-Dorrien   Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyWed Aug 13, 2014 9:15 pm

Very interesting post, yes shame, surely a strimmer
and a bit of graft...there must be living descendants?.
Back to top Go down
John Young

John Young


Posts : 3315
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 68
Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

Horace Smith-Dorrien Empty
PostSubject: Re: Horace Smith-Dorrien   Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyThu Aug 14, 2014 7:35 am

Les,

I'm not sure about living relatives of his three sons I can say that Grenfell was killed by enemy action in Italy during World War 2; Peter was killed in the attack on the King David Hotel, Jerusalem by the Stern Gang in 1946 and the third son David died without issue.

John Y.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Horace Smith-Dorrien Empty
PostSubject: Re: Horace Smith-Dorrien   Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyThu Aug 14, 2014 8:28 pm

Hey JY, many thanks for that info, what a rotten shame!
for those in the know he was such a national hero, what
a sad state, even his physical remains are disrespected
in that fashion! swear if i lived close he would get some of
the attention he deserved.
Back to top Go down
littlehand

littlehand


Posts : 7076
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 56
Location : Down South.

Horace Smith-Dorrien Empty
PostSubject: Re: Horace Smith-Dorrien   Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptyFri Aug 22, 2014 11:12 pm

"Distinguished Soldier Killed Near Chippenham

Motors crash near Yatton Keynell Cross-roads

One England’s most distinguished soldiers in the Great War General Sir Horace Smith-Dorrien whose home was at Dinard St Male passed away at the Chippenham Cottage Hospital on Tuesday following injuries received in a motor car collision the previous day, at a spot about 3 miles from the town.

General Smith-Dorrien who was well known to many of Wiltshire’s famous soldiers of both and present generations had been on a short visit to Col Rex Hamilton Osborne, formerly commanding the Queen's Bays (2nd Dragoon Guards) and now on a staff duty on Salisbury Plain who a year ago came to reside at Crudwell Court. On Monday Col and Mrs Osborne accompanied by Gen Smith-Dorrien motored over to Mrs FW Morley's at BIddestone Manor and left thereabout 4 o’clock to return to Crudwell Court. At a spot about a quarter of a mile from the "Longstone" and when about to cross the Yatton Keynell road to proceed to Kington St Michael, the Col's saloon and a car driven by Mr Reginald Reason of Birmingham who was understood to be on a visit to Calne came into collision. Both vehicles were considerable damaged and Col Osborne's car struck the grass verge and overturned onto its side. The Gen was sitting in the back seat and it is believed that his head came in violent collision with the top of the car. At any rate, he sustained a fracture at the base of his skull, an incised wound 2 1/2 long on the right side of his head and the temple artery was severed. Col Osborne was not injured and Mrs Osborne who was stated as being thrown through one of the glass panels also escaped injury. Mr Reason's son who was with his father sustained a small cut over the forehead. Mr Reason was uninjured.

Medical assistance was obtained as quickly as possible; Capt Russell Wood, of Lanhill which is quite nearby was one of those who rendered aid and with all speed the Gen was removed in the ambulance to hospital, where it was seen that his recovery was practically hopeless. Besides the local doctors, Dr C Terry, a Bath specialist was sent for but the Gen who was unconscious when picked up never regained consciousness and died shortly before 1030 on Tuesday morning. Lady Smith-Dorrien was phoned for shortly after the accident and motoring with all speed reached the hospital in the early hours; so, to, did Lt GHJ Smith-Dorrien of the 2nd KRR who is at Tidworth, but the Gen was not able to recognise either wife or son, though they were at his bedside when he passed away.

At the inquest

DR GW Ares of Chippenham stated that he was called to the scene of the accident about 4.30 on Monday afternoon and found deceased still inside the car which was on it's side. The deceased was seriously injured about the head and had an incised wound on the right side of his head about 2 1/2 inches long and the temple artery had been severed. There was no fracture of the wall of the skull but from the symptoms and signs afterwards they found a fracture at the base of the skull from the results of which, deceased died that morning."


Rough estimate of where accident took place!
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
24th

24th


Posts : 1862
Join date : 2009-03-25

Horace Smith-Dorrien Empty
PostSubject: Re: Horace Smith-Dorrien   Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptySat Aug 23, 2014 1:20 am

Came all that way. Only to be killed in a car accident.  No 
Back to top Go down
6pdr

6pdr


Posts : 1086
Join date : 2012-05-12
Location : NYC

Horace Smith-Dorrien Empty
PostSubject: Re: Horace Smith-Dorrien   Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptySat Aug 23, 2014 6:06 am

24th wrote:
Came all that way. Only to be killed in a car accident.  No 

Same thing happened to George Patton.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Horace Smith-Dorrien Empty
PostSubject: Re: Horace Smith-Dorrien   Horace Smith-Dorrien EmptySat Aug 23, 2014 12:29 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
 
Horace Smith-Dorrien
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Could this be Horace Smith-Dorrien.
» Martin Foley
» Horace Smith-Dorrien

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: THE ONE'S THE HISTORY BOOKS FORGOT-
Jump to: