Colonel Pulliene's posistion during the fight

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27

Where was Colonel Pulliene most likely to command the battle from at Isandlwana ???

Snook places him on the front line to the right of the guns behind H company, were he could see the whole fight.

Greaves puts him in the Head Quaters area, were people could find him.

Any ideas anyone ?

Cheers

DB.
Pages 140 to 143 in the camp area.

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Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27

Thanks admin Salute

But i ment were would he have been during the fight ?

Cheers

I expect where he died. Salute

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

Drummer Boy 14 wrote:: Where was Colonel Pulliene most likely to command the battle from at Isandlwana ???

Snook places him on the front line to the right of the guns behind H company, were he could see the whole fight.

Greaves puts him in the Head Quaters area, were people could find him.

Any ideas anyone ?

Cheers

hI DB 14

If you have "Hill of the Sphinx" (FWD JACKSON)

See p. 41: "Quatermaster PULLEN..."

See P. 46 "the three companies of the 1/24th..."

See p. 46"During the retreat Captain NOURSE..."

Cheers

YMOB

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27

Hi Ymob

Thanks i've just checked, the fact Brickhill couldn't find him makes me think he must have been on the firing line.
Melvill was, which is also a good pointer.

Cheers

The where abouts of Pulliene's body was not known until this eye witness account from Browne was found, in the book mentioned. But can we count on Brownes account.

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27

His accountant fits with Coghill's description of Pulliene being shot dead.

If he had't died " Early " then surly he'd have been with the rest of the 1/24th on the Saddle ?

Cheers

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

Drummer Boy 14 wrote:: Hi Ymob

Thanks i've just checked, the fact Brickhill couldn't find him makes me think he must have been on the firing line.

Hi DB 14

i am agree with you...and F.W.D. JACKSON ! ("hill of the Sphinx")

For the others:

p.41 "He [PULLEN] asked the Interpreter [BRICKHILL] to get reinforcements from Col. PULLEINE. BRICKHILL went to look for PULLEINE at the 2/24th camp but could not find him. It is likely that he had gone forward to the firing line".

p.46 "the three companies of the 1/24th which had been in the line to the left of the guns seem to have fought over the whole length of the camp, losing men all the way. Pulleine may have been with them"

P.46 "During the retreat, Captain Nourse saw Col. PULLEINE with forty soldiers 800 yards in rear of the Nek, probably at the point where the fugitive's trail crossed the Manzimyama, at the mouth of a ravine and subsquently Inspector MANSEL (NMP) found these forty lying there with ine body that could have been PULLEINE".

reagrds

YMOB

Cheers

Posts : 2593 Join date : 2009-04-24

No one knows where Pulliene's body was. It was never found. Admin I don't think we can take Brownes word for it. As far as i'm aware his account is the only one who states he saw "Pulliene's" body.

THere were at least three sightings of his body, that doesnt prove where he was during the battle, only where he died.
DB14
Mike Snooks placed him where he thinks he should have been. No evidence at all to prove either way.

Personaly I believe he died retreating on the back of the saddle.

Regards

Subject: Colonel Pulleine's position during the battle Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:35 am

Hi All.
Probably a waste of time due to the fact that we will never know . Pure conjecture and speculation . Suspect

.
cheers 90th. Salute

DB14, if you do indeed put any credence on what Zulu witnesses/ primary accounts say - and most people and historians don't - then one position he was reported to be in was sat on his arsenal, at his desk, in his tent, writing a letter.

I don't find this report too incredible to be honest.

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27

The warrior doesn't name Pulliene simply that it was an officer, it was make it up Morris who said it was Pulliene,
the same man who has Younghusband dying in a waggon.

Pulliene was shot , Coghill told a number of fugitives.

Cheers

Drummer Boy 14 wrote:: The warrior doesn't name Pulliene simply that it was an officer, it was make it up Morris who said it was Pulliene,
the same man who has Younghusband dying in a waggon.

Pulliene was shot , Coghill told a number of fugitives.

Cheers

The warrior gave a good description of the officer in the tent, whom he shot. (No argument that Pulleine was shot).
Who else could the officer, shot by the Zulu warrior have been, would you like to suggest someone?
And don't write off Morris and everything he says, just because one or two things he wrote have latterly been disproven. That is how history, like any other subject works. He was but filling in unknown gaps rather like Mike Snook does, with intelligeny conjecture. The evidence to tell every part of the story does not exist, so sometimes to completethe story, it is valid to make the odd intelligent guess.

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27

tasker224 wrote:: The warrior gave a good description of the officer in the tent, whom he shot. (No argument that Pulleine was shot).

The warrior stabbed the man to death, not shot.

It could have been any of these, their bodies were never found.

Major Francis White

Colonel Pulliene

Sub-Lieutenant Griffith

Captain Degacher

Lt. Patrick Daly

Lt. Chales Akinson

Can't see it being Pulliene, he was shot dead, reported by Coghill.

Cheers

Coghill's story of Pulleine being shot is unreliable. Coghill fled the camp and was trying to justify his actions in fleeing.
Lt Griffith would certainly have been out in the field with his men of the 2/24th.
No one else would have had the authority to be sat in the tent. They would have been too junior in rank and their superior would have tasked them with a job to do.

You are quite correct that the warrior stabbed Pulleine, in the tent.
What other evidence exists that Pulleine was shot, aside from what Coghill is supposed to have said in 3rd hand reports?

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27

Curling

“Shortly after this I saw Lieutenant Coghill, who told me Colonel Pulliene had been killed.”

Private Brickly

“Lieut. Coghill afterwards joined us, and reported to the Adjutant that Colonel Pulliene had been shot.”

He would have been focused on his own escape, not inventing reasons why he was doing so. The fact Pulliene was dead doesn't give him an exuse to leave.

Cheers

Drummer Boy 14 wrote:: Curling

“Shortly after this I saw Lieutenant Coghill, who told me Colonel Pulliene had been killed.”

Private Brickly

“Lieut. Coghill afterwards joined us, and reported to the Adjutant that Colonel Pulliene had been shot.”

He would have been focused on his own escape, not inventing reasons why he was doing so. The fact Pulliene was dead doesn't give him an exuse to leave.

Cheers

Thanks DB14.
Let us know if you find any reports independant of what Coghill is reported to have said 3rd hand. Salute

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27

Intrestingly Browne's drawing shows Pulliene's helmet next to his body with a bullet hole in it.

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Cheers

Thanks DB14, you almost have me convinced, but you're going to have to do better than Maori Browne - a legendary and renowned story teller himself!!!
Salute

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27

Tasker

How is Curling's report 3rd person ? scratch

Cheers

Drummer Boy 14 wrote:: Tasker

How is Curling's report 3rd person ?

Cheers

Curling did not see Pulleine shot; Curling was told Pulleine was shot; by a man he recognised as Coghill, who was dead so could not substantiate Curling's report.

1. Pulleine does not tell us he was shot
2. Coghill does not tell us he was shot
3. Curling tells us he was shot

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27

So Lt. Curling and Priavte Brickly just happen to make it up ?

Cheers

Drummer Boy 14 wrote:: So Curling and Brickly just happen to make it up ?

Cheers

More likely that Coghill made it up. Why? Perhaps to justify his fleeing the battle instead of rallying his men.

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27

Tasker, thats not an excuse for leaving the field. As a mounted officer of the 24th Coghill would most likely have been serving as an monuted aid to Pulliene. He was seen dashing around the place on his horse.

Cheers

You are probably correct. Maybe Coghill did see Pulleine's bloodied body, but that is not evidence that Pulleine had been shot.

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27

tasker224 wrote:: You are probably correct. Maybe Coghill did see Pulleine's bloodied body, but that is not evidence that Pulleine had been shot.

Why would you dismiss Coghill's evidence, he had no reason to lie.

People like Higginson who did lie had good reasons.

Cheers

Maybe Coghill didn't lie, perhaps he was mistaken.
I don't want to gross you out DB14, but if you were to see a deceased body with several puncture wounds, I would challenge you to determine if it had been shot with a small calibre weapon, or stabbed.
This would take a very experienced and highly qualified pathologist several hours to determine.

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27

By the time Coghill left the Zulus weren't in the camp, ergo Coghill couldn't have seen a stabbed body.

Cheers

D14, you seem to have forgotten what we were debating! scratch

Go back and read through the thread! Salute

Coghill had to fight his way out of the camp, so the Zulus must have been in the camp.
Curling's report says Coghill saw Pulleine "killed", the other that he was "shot"
Either way, neither is evidence he had indeed, been shot, hence disproving the the claim of the Zulu warrior who had killed him with a spear.

Guest

Hi all

Fully agree with you Tasker.

Salute

Pascal

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