WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu. Lieutenant John Chard: The army doesn't like more than one disaster in a day. Bromhead: Looks bad in the newspapers and upsets civilians at their breakfast.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  Latest imagesLatest images  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Colonel Edward William Bray, 2nd/4th Regt.
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyYesterday at 8:49 pm by John Young

» Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyYesterday at 10:53 am by Julian Whybra

» Samuel Popple
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyYesterday at 8:43 am by STEPHEN JAMES

» Studies in the Zulu War volume VI now available
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptySat Nov 09, 2024 6:38 pm by Julian Whybra

» Colonel Charles Knight Pearson
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Nov 08, 2024 5:56 pm by LincolnJDH

» Grave of Henry Spalding
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyThu Nov 07, 2024 8:10 pm by 1879graves

» John West at Kambula
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyThu Nov 07, 2024 5:25 pm by MKalny15

» Private Frederick Evans 2/24th
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptySun Nov 03, 2024 8:12 pm by Dash

» How to find medal entitlement Coker
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptySun Nov 03, 2024 10:51 am by Kev T

» Isandlwana Casualty - McCathie/McCarthy
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptySat Nov 02, 2024 1:40 pm by Julian Whybra

» William Jones Comment
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 6:07 pm by Eddie

» Brother of Lt Young
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 5:13 pm by Eddie

» Frederick Marsh - HMS Tenedos
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 9:48 am by lydenburg

» Mr Spiers KIA iSandlwana ?
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 7:50 am by Julian Whybra

» Isandhlwana unaccounted for casualties
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 7:48 am by Julian Whybra

» Thrupps report to Surgeon General Wolfies
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyThu Oct 31, 2024 12:32 pm by Julian Whybra

» Absence of Vereker from Snook's Book
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Oct 25, 2024 10:59 pm by Julian Whybra

» Another Actor related to the Degacher-Hitchcock family
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyMon Oct 21, 2024 1:07 pm by Stefaan

» No. 799 George Williams and his son-in-law No. 243 Thomas Newman
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptySat Oct 19, 2024 12:36 pm by Dash

» Alphonse de Neuville- Painting the Defence of Rorke's Drift
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Oct 18, 2024 8:34 am by Stefaan

» Studies in the Zulu War volumes
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyWed Oct 16, 2024 3:26 pm by Julian Whybra

» Martini Henry carbine IC1 markings
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyMon Oct 14, 2024 10:48 pm by Parkerbloggs

» James Conner 1879 clasp
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyMon Oct 14, 2024 7:12 pm by Kenny

» 80th REG of Foot (Staffords)
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptySun Oct 13, 2024 9:07 pm by shadeswolf

» Frontier Light Horse uniform
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptySun Oct 13, 2024 8:12 pm by Schlaumeier

» Gelsthorpe, G. 1374 Private 1/24th / Scott, Sidney W. 521 Private 1/24th
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptySun Oct 13, 2024 1:00 pm by Dash

» A Bullet Bible
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptySat Oct 12, 2024 8:33 am by Julian Whybra

» Brothers Sears
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Oct 11, 2024 7:17 pm by Eddie

» Zulu War Medal MHS Tamar
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Oct 11, 2024 3:48 pm by philip c

» Ford Park Cemetery, Plymouth.
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyTue Oct 08, 2024 4:15 pm by rai

» Shipping - transport in the AZW
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptySun Oct 06, 2024 10:47 pm by Bill8183

» 1879 South Africa Medal named 1879 BAR
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptySun Oct 06, 2024 12:41 pm by Dash

» A note on Captain Norris Edward Davey, Natal Volunteer Staff.
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptySun Oct 06, 2024 12:16 pm by Julian Whybra

» Isandlwana papers he,d by the RE museum
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptySun Oct 06, 2024 6:06 am by 90th

» An Irish V.C. conundrum?
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyThu Oct 03, 2024 10:51 am by Julian Whybra

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
November 2024
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
    123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
252627282930 
CalendarCalendar
Most active topics
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Please Do Not Post Ads on Our Forum
Google Chrome new standards imposed
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
In deference to other online platforms discussing the history of the Anglo-Zulu War of 1879
The missing five hours.
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
The ammunition question
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Top posting users this month
Julian Whybra
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
Tig Van Milcroft
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
SRB1965
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
warrior3
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
Eddie
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
John Young
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
Dash
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
aussie inkosi
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
Kev T
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
MKalny15
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
New topics
» Colonel Edward William Bray, 2nd/4th Regt.
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyYesterday at 8:49 pm by John Young

» Samuel Popple
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyTue Nov 12, 2024 3:36 pm by STEPHEN JAMES

» Colonel Charles Knight Pearson
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Nov 08, 2024 5:56 pm by LincolnJDH

» John West at Kambula
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyMon Nov 04, 2024 11:54 pm by MKalny15

» How to find medal entitlement Coker
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 9:32 am by Kev T

» Frederick Marsh - HMS Tenedos
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyThu Oct 31, 2024 1:42 pm by lydenburg

» Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyMon Oct 28, 2024 8:18 am by SRB1965

» Thrupps report to Surgeon General Wolfies
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptySun Oct 27, 2024 11:32 am by SRB1965

» Brother of Lt Young
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptySat Oct 26, 2024 9:52 pm by Eddie

Similar topics
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying.
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address. Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.  If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.  We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes. There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site. The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum. The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
 

 Top points of disagreement between historians/authors

Go down 
+5
kopie
24th
littlehand
John Young
dlancast
9 posters
AuthorMessage
dlancast

dlancast


Posts : 42
Join date : 2010-11-05
Location : Texas

Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Nov 01, 2013 5:24 pm

I was wondering what forum members consider the top ten(not to limit the list) points are that historians/authrors seem to disagree on in the AZW.  I know that I have 70 - 80 books, articles etc and smetimes it is confusing to get at the real truth of the matter (if that is even possible).  Some examples might be
* Was Chelmsford lured out?
* Where did the main Impi stay the night before the battle?
* What do you think?
Back to top Go down
John Young

John Young


Posts : 3315
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 68
Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Nov 01, 2013 5:33 pm

dlancast,

There's the old chestnut of the ammunition supply to the firing-line.

The number of European survivors of iSandlwana is still a bone of contention for some.

The number of the garrison at Rorke's Drift, obviously including who was/was not there.

Just a few for starters.

JY
Back to top Go down
littlehand

littlehand


Posts : 7076
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 56
Location : Down South.

Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Nov 01, 2013 7:02 pm

M&C is another!  Along with the VC question?
Back to top Go down
24th

24th


Posts : 1862
Join date : 2009-03-25

Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Nov 01, 2013 7:24 pm

Was David Jenkins at RD:suspect: 
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Nov 01, 2013 7:48 pm


Was David Jenkins at RD Suspect 

24th, not long now, we can wait
another four day's, look forward
to your counter view's.
Neutral  cheers xhosa
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Nov 01, 2013 7:59 pm

Carey and Harvard.
who bungled at
Hlobane. how much
cattle was actually
' lifted ' who got
what?..
Back to top Go down
kopie




Posts : 249
Join date : 2013-06-01

Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Nov 01, 2013 8:06 pm

I would like to chip in with one or two fairly obvious and long argued disagreements.

1. Was Chelmsford right right to split his force prior to Isandhlwana?

2. Was the loss of Isandhlwana Chelmsford's fault? Or was it Durnford's fault?

3. Did Lord Chelmsford scapegoat a dead man (Durnford) for the loss of Isandhlwana in order to save his own neck?
Back to top Go down
impi

impi


Posts : 2308
Join date : 2010-07-02
Age : 44

Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Nov 01, 2013 11:39 pm

Did the Zulus really intend to attack on the 23rd Jan.


Why did Chelmsford really stop Harness from moving to the camp ?




Why did Chelmsford want Harness on the panel of the court of enquiry ? 
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Nov 01, 2013 11:52 pm

impi.yes! Very Happy  could fill the page with a lot
of these Suspect  question was the
' cover up ' a pre thought contingency
stratagem. Hmmm. xhosa
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyMon Nov 04, 2013 4:19 am

dlancast wrote: ".... confusing to get at the real truth of the matter (That is if even possible)."

This is true dlancast, the more you read, the less you know, because like many other battles, 99% of authors copy each other ...

Not counting, the authors having written of the .....

You just have to read the books of Messrs. David Jackson and Julian Whybra and thou shalt make savings of time and money by being as close to the truth ...

Cheers

Pascal

Back to top Go down
24th

24th


Posts : 1862
Join date : 2009-03-25

Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyMon Nov 04, 2013 8:41 pm

Ian Knight's books would be the best bet!
Back to top Go down
Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat


Posts : 2593
Join date : 2009-04-24

Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyMon Nov 04, 2013 9:16 pm

Admin. Can we stop this dropping of authors names, and who writes the best books. Looking historically the only thing this achieves is bringing discussions to a halt. Use their material to base an argument, but not to score brownie points. John young, never pluggs his book, he just joins in the discussions and produces excellent photographs. There are no books out there that can tell us what happen at Isandlwana. We already know. Jackson's maybe the best to some, but his book can't tell us anything other books can't. 

Springboks app, gives a better overview of the battlefield and who was where, than any book I have!
Back to top Go down
ymob

ymob


Posts : 2268
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : France

Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyMon Nov 04, 2013 10:24 pm



Springboks app, gives a better overview of the battlefield and who was where, than any book I have![/quote]
Bonsoir,
Maybe, YOU haven't got the " Best" books? Very Happy 
( no offense for Springboks).
Cheers.
Frédéric
Back to top Go down
http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
littlehand

littlehand


Posts : 7076
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 56
Location : Down South.

Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyMon Nov 04, 2013 10:32 pm

Ymob  Which one would you recommend. I would be interesting in one that gives photographic views of the battlefield, with a detailed overview of what took place at that particular point.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyMon Nov 04, 2013 11:17 pm

cstg, just curious, but are you a book
collector? there is no reason, of course
why you should be, your sources are as
valid as any, but fredric's repost made
me smile,then wonder. cheers xhosa
Back to top Go down
ymob

ymob


Posts : 2268
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : France

Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyTue Nov 05, 2013 1:39 am

I would be interesting in one that gives photographic views of the battlefield, with a detailed overview of what took place at that particular point.[/quote]


Bonsoir Littlehand,

For the battle of Isandhlwana, I am agree with "Chelsmfordthescapegoat", "Springboks" can made this sort of books -Seriously.
One day, it seems to me that Springbok had said that he is writing "a different book" on this battle...
There is on the web, a "free" site that gives many photographic views of the battlefield and describes what took place at that particular point (with only few errors). Sorry, at this moment, i don't recall the link.
For me, there is not "this sort of book" specific on the battle of Isandhlwana.
On this subject, il only have a copy of "sort of guidebook" to the AZW battlefields as:
"The illustraded guide to the AZW" by John Laband and Paul Thompson;
"Then and Now" by Ian Knight;
"Guidebook to the AZW battlefields" by David Rattray;
-Two booklets: "Isandlwana" and "Rorke's Drift" by Ian Knight and Ian Castle (collection: Battleground south africa).

For "books" (and not essay) on the battle of Isandhlwana, it's a very delicate question (and answer).
- "The Hill of the Sphinx" by FWD Jackson (academic research);
-Zulu Rising"(and the "silver book" for the photos) by Ian Knight ;
-For the "debate": "Zulu victory" by Ron Lock and Peter Quantrill;
- For the "fiction": (no offense)"How can men ..." by Mike Snook and "The washing of the spears" by Morris.

After, they are books interesting on "specific point"of the battle of Isandhlwana:
-On the losses and survivors: Whybra, Young, Holme;
- On the Zulu: Laband-Knight-Smith...
- On the NNC:Thompson-Smith...
- On Durnford:Drooglever, Snook...
- On the 24th : Gon...
- On Chelsmford- Laband...
- On the NMP: Holt;
- On diaries, journals or comtemporary sources: HARFORD, HAMILTON BROWNE, NEWHAM-DAVIS, HALLAM-PARR, CURLING, SMITH-DORRIEN, (MOODIE, EMERY)...
- etc....
I suppose Sonia Clarke is a very good author (two books too expansive for me!!!).
It's just an opinion.


Cheers.

Frédéric
Back to top Go down
http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8572
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 77
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyTue Nov 05, 2013 6:03 am

Theres a couple of different ways of looking at the Battlefields.
1)For the person who wants to know the battlefield and where everything took place in chronological order with effectively a diorama. Then the more photos and maps the better.

2)Then there is the more serious/studious that wants to know WHY not Where. The minutae of decisions, who made them, why they were made.

3)Then there are the speculative who attempt to find solutions to fit the puzzles.

The books that are often quoted can be slotted into those categories. My app was born out of this forum and the numbers of members that wont ever get to the battlefields and so need a more visual picture of the events. I would therefore fit into the first category I suppose. As would Ian Knights: Then and Now and the various battlefield guides.

For the second, there are the really serious publications from Whybra, Jackson, Knight Smith et al.

The third would encompass the likes of Snook Quantrill etc.

Every one of those 3 are important in trying to get a view of this bloody battle. But I don't believe you can compare one section with another, they all fill a void.

Ymob
No offence taken mate. Salute 
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyTue Nov 05, 2013 8:22 am

Everyone's opinion, but to save time and money, and I always say to those who say contacts me, or come see to my hordes of figures, if they want to imitate me or if they simply are interested by the Zulu war, they must purchase priority "Hill of the Sphinx" and all that Julian has published, so they save time and money ...

I show them these books and when they see that they are in, they all regret all their purchases of precedents books on this war ...

After having contacted me, like many, they realize that they have put the cart before the horse ...

This is where it ends ...

Regarding color photos ... Too bad there is not have to get the possibility of color pictures in 1879 ...

We could compare them with those made in XX and XXI th centuries, still a good opportunity to laugh ...

This is where it ends ...

Pascal
Back to top Go down
ymob

ymob


Posts : 2268
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : France

Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyTue Nov 05, 2013 10:59 am

Ymob
No offence taken mate.
Salute [/quote] 
 
 
Bonjour Springbok,
 
No problem for me...and I am totally agree with you!!!
And your project of a "different book" on the battle of Isandhlwana?
 
Cheers.
 
Frédéric
Back to top Go down
http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
Guest
Guest




Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyTue Nov 05, 2013 3:08 pm

In fact color photos on the battlefields in Zululand, there are plenty on the internet ...

No utilities except for the South African tourism, because the battlefields of 1879, should no longer have great things to do with photos taken at the end of the twentieth century and the XXIst century...
Back to top Go down
 
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock   
» Greetings Historians / Gentlemen
» Authors Zulu War

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: