Latest topics | » Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Today at 6:37 pm by Tig Van Milcroft » Dr. A. Ralph BusbySun Nov 17, 2024 11:25 pm by Julian Whybra » Lieutenant M.G. Wales, 1st Natal Native ContingentSat Nov 16, 2024 12:32 pm by Matthew Turl » Colonel Edward William Bray, 2nd/4th Regt.Fri Nov 15, 2024 9:55 pm by Julian Whybra » Royal Marine Light Infantry, ChathamThu Nov 14, 2024 7:57 pm by Petty Officer Tom » H.M.S. ForesterThu Nov 14, 2024 4:07 pm by johnex » Samuel PoppleWed Nov 13, 2024 8:43 am by STEPHEN JAMES » Studies in the Zulu War volume VI now availableSat Nov 09, 2024 6:38 pm by Julian Whybra » Colonel Charles Knight PearsonFri Nov 08, 2024 5:56 pm by LincolnJDH » Grave of Henry SpaldingThu Nov 07, 2024 8:10 pm by 1879graves » John West at KambulaThu Nov 07, 2024 5:25 pm by MKalny15 » Private Frederick Evans 2/24thSun Nov 03, 2024 8:12 pm by Dash » How to find medal entitlement CokerSun Nov 03, 2024 10:51 am by Kev T » Isandlwana Casualty - McCathie/McCarthySat Nov 02, 2024 1:40 pm by Julian Whybra » William Jones CommentFri Nov 01, 2024 6:07 pm by Eddie » Brother of Lt YoungFri Nov 01, 2024 5:13 pm by Eddie » Frederick Marsh - HMS TenedosFri Nov 01, 2024 9:48 am by lydenburg » Mr Spiers KIA iSandlwana ?Fri Nov 01, 2024 7:50 am by Julian Whybra » Isandhlwana unaccounted for casualtiesFri Nov 01, 2024 7:48 am by Julian Whybra » Thrupps report to Surgeon General Wolfies Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:32 pm by Julian Whybra » Absence of Vereker from Snook's BookFri Oct 25, 2024 10:59 pm by Julian Whybra » Another Actor related to the Degacher-Hitchcock familyMon Oct 21, 2024 1:07 pm by Stefaan » No. 799 George Williams and his son-in-law No. 243 Thomas NewmanSat Oct 19, 2024 12:36 pm by Dash » Alphonse de Neuville- Painting the Defence of Rorke's DriftFri Oct 18, 2024 8:34 am by Stefaan » Studies in the Zulu War volumesWed Oct 16, 2024 3:26 pm by Julian Whybra » Martini Henry carbine IC1 markingsMon Oct 14, 2024 10:48 pm by Parkerbloggs » James Conner 1879 claspMon Oct 14, 2024 7:12 pm by Kenny » 80th REG of Foot (Staffords)Sun Oct 13, 2024 9:07 pm by shadeswolf » Frontier Light Horse uniformSun Oct 13, 2024 8:12 pm by Schlaumeier » Gelsthorpe, G. 1374 Private 1/24th / Scott, Sidney W. 521 Private 1/24thSun Oct 13, 2024 1:00 pm by Dash » A Bullet BibleSat Oct 12, 2024 8:33 am by Julian Whybra » Brothers SearsFri Oct 11, 2024 7:17 pm by Eddie » Zulu War Medal MHS TamarFri Oct 11, 2024 3:48 pm by philip c » Ford Park Cemetery, Plymouth.Tue Oct 08, 2024 4:15 pm by rai » Shipping - transport in the AZWSun Oct 06, 2024 10:47 pm by Bill8183 |
November 2024 | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri | Sat | Sun |
---|
| | | | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | | Calendar |
|
Top posting users this month | |
New topics | » Dr. A. Ralph BusbySat Nov 16, 2024 11:36 am by Julian Whybra » Colonel Edward William Bray, 2nd/4th Regt.Wed Nov 13, 2024 8:49 pm by John Young » Samuel PoppleTue Nov 12, 2024 3:36 pm by STEPHEN JAMES » Colonel Charles Knight PearsonFri Nov 08, 2024 5:56 pm by LincolnJDH » John West at KambulaMon Nov 04, 2024 11:54 pm by MKalny15 » How to find medal entitlement CokerFri Nov 01, 2024 9:32 am by Kev T » Frederick Marsh - HMS TenedosThu Oct 31, 2024 1:42 pm by lydenburg » Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Mon Oct 28, 2024 8:18 am by SRB1965 » Thrupps report to Surgeon General Wolfies Sun Oct 27, 2024 11:32 am by SRB1965 |
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. |
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address.
Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.
If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.
We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes.
There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site.
The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum.
The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. |
Fair Use Notice | Fair use notice.
This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner.
We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes.
We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website.
If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution. |
|
| Ammunition train attempting to escape from Isandlwana. | |
| | Author | Message |
---|
littlehand
Posts : 7076 Join date : 2009-04-24 Age : 56 Location : Down South.
| Subject: Ammunition train attempting to escape from Isandlwana. Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:57 pm | |
| Is there any accounts of a ammunition train coming to grief along the fugitive trail, while trying to escape from Isandlwana. ? |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10909 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: amminition train attempting to escape from Isandlwana Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:34 pm | |
| I don't ever remember coming across something like that . I know Col Bray 2/4 th Regt buried Ammunition on a march when he thought they may be attacked , it was never found again ! . 90th |
| | | littlehand
Posts : 7076 Join date : 2009-04-24 Age : 56 Location : Down South.
| Subject: Re: Ammunition train attempting to escape from Isandlwana. Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:45 pm | |
| Will post text later referring to ammo train. |
| | | littlehand
Posts : 7076 Join date : 2009-04-24 Age : 56 Location : Down South.
| Subject: Re: Ammunition train attempting to escape from Isandlwana. Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:20 pm | |
| "I pictured to myself what long odds were against a lot of men riding for their lives over such ground, all crowding upon each other, and the savage enemy behind rushing in among them with unearthly yells, driving the maddened horses into the dongas and stabbing their riders—and many seemed to have come to grief here, judging from the traces. At the bottom of one of these fissures lay the fragments of an ammunition train, which had evidently taken a regular ' header,' the shattered skeletons of four horses or mules in a heap together, and thinly covered over with stones those of the two unfortunates who presumably were with the team. Among twisted-up ends of old straps and harness, ammunition boxes splintered and broken were strewn. I found the rope handle of one of these intact, and very hard I had to saw at it before I could get it off. Pretty good this, after three years of exposure to weather. On all sides were traces and remains of the flight."
Mitford. |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10909 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: amminition train attempting to escape from Isandlwana Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:32 pm | |
| Hhaahha I've read Mitford's book ' Through The Zulu Country ' at least twice ! , I didn't remember seeing that ! LOL . 90th |
| | | rusteze
Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02
| Subject: Re: Ammunition train attempting to escape from Isandlwana. Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:40 pm | |
| Sounds convincing too. Why did he saw of a rope handle though?
Steve |
| | | littlehand
Posts : 7076 Join date : 2009-04-24 Age : 56 Location : Down South.
| Subject: Re: Ammunition train attempting to escape from Isandlwana. Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:58 pm | |
| Perhaps he wanted a piece of History?
I don't think Mitford was the kind of chap to make things up, there would be no point, after all he was just visiting the Battlefields. But interesting to know that a ammo wagon attempted to get away. The question is. Did it contain ammunition, or was that discharged back at the camp. A few remnants were found of boxes were found. |
| | | Ray63
Posts : 705 Join date : 2012-05-05
| Subject: Re: Ammunition train attempting to escape from Isandlwana. Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:07 pm | |
| Didn't Surgeon Shepherd try and get way in a waggon. |
| | | rusteze
Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02
| Subject: Re: Ammunition train attempting to escape from Isandlwana. Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:11 pm | |
| Not sure it was a wagon - just pack horses perhaps? Might have been colonial. Can't see a wagon getting down there- does he say how far down the trail?
Steve |
| | | littlehand
Posts : 7076 Join date : 2009-04-24 Age : 56 Location : Down South.
| Subject: Re: Ammunition train attempting to escape from Isandlwana. Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:19 am | |
| - rusteze wrote:
- Not sure it was a wagon - just pack horses perhaps? Might have been colonial. Can't see a wagon getting down there- does he say how far down the trail?
Steve Here the first part of the entry. "One morning I started from Isandhlwana to explore the line of retreat to ' Fugitives' Drift,' as it is now called, accompanied by one of the mission clergy, who had kindly offered to act as guide. Eiding over the camp ground we crossed the waggon road on the ' neck,' and struck into the narrow path running along the base of ' Black's Kopje' down into the ravine. Heaps of debris lay about—bones and skulls of oxen, belt buckles, sardine tins, shrivelled-up boots, the nails falling out of the rotting soles, odds and ends of clothing, old brushes—in fact, rubbish of all sorts ; while every ten or twenty yards we would come upon sadder traces of the flight in the shape of Httle heaps of stones, through the interstices of which could be seen the bones of some unfortunate buried underneath. The track is smooth enough for three or four hundred yards, and then the trouble begins ; as we get among the thorns the ground is seamed with deep dongas yawning suddenly before us, rendering riding anything but safe. Now we are on the brink of one of these chasms ; then the track suddenly diverging, takes us along a narrow razor-hke ridge with a fall of some fifteen or twenty feet on either side." Then it goes on to what I have already posted |
| | | rusteze
Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02
| Subject: Re: Ammunition train attempting to escape from Isandlwana. Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:34 am | |
| So about a quarter of a mile down the trail, must have been pack horses surely. Steve |
| | | barry
Posts : 947 Join date : 2011-10-21 Location : Algoa Bay
| Subject: Ammnition train -Isandlwana Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:57 am | |
| Hi Rusteze What is confusing everybody here is possibly the use of the word "train". There were no ammo trains, per se, at Isandlwana. However, pack mules were used extensively by the Colonials, eg NMP and NC to deliver ammo to the firing lines. Trooper Clarke, NMP documents finding two dead pack mules, still fitted with harnesse and panniers, all still loaded with ammunition, on their backs. The mules had been assegaied to death. Clarke found the dead mules on the Fugitives trail during the first visit back to the battlefield with Maj Black. It is thought that these two pack mules were those seen running around the battlefield in the heat of the battle. Excerpts from Clarke's diary detailing this account have already been posted, verbatum, a while back on this forum.
regards
barry |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10909 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: Ammunition Train attempting to escape at Isandlwana Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:29 am | |
| The Ambulance wagon was from memory caught on the Fugitives Drift side of the Nek / saddle ? . Barry is correct there were no '' trains '' in the sense of the word , just pack animals etc etc , as for the rope , all the Ammo boxes had rope on the ends , so they could be carried by two people , one person couldnt carry it ! 90th |
| | | Ulundi
Posts : 558 Join date : 2012-05-05
| Subject: Re: Ammunition train attempting to escape from Isandlwana. Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:07 am | |
| Wonder why they was so far down the trail? |
| | | rusteze
Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02
| Subject: Re: Ammunition train attempting to escape from Isandlwana. Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:41 am | |
| Yes I understand about rope handles on ammo boxes, but a strange thing to take as a souvenir when there must have been much more evocative things to pick up.
Steve |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10909 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: amminition train attempting to escape from Isandlwana Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:26 am | |
| Yes Steve that's true , there would've been any number of items he could've picked up . 90th |
| | | 24th
Posts : 1862 Join date : 2009-03-25
| Subject: Re: Ammunition train attempting to escape from Isandlwana. Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:45 am | |
| Or perhaps he made some use of it. Don't suppose anyone would know how long the rope would be once removed from the ammo box. |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10909 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: Ammunition train attempting to escape from Isandlwana Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:03 pm | |
| The rope isn't very long , its basically a loop . I just had a look at mine and about 12'' or so I'd say . 90th |
| | | | Ammunition train attempting to escape from Isandlwana. | |
|
Similar topics | |
|
| Permissions in this forum: | You cannot reply to topics in this forum
| |
| |
| |