WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu. Lieutenant John Chard: The army doesn't like more than one disaster in a day. Bromhead: Looks bad in the newspapers and upsets civilians at their breakfast.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  Latest imagesLatest images  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyTue Nov 19, 2024 10:05 am by Tig Van Milcroft

» Dr. A. Ralph Busby
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptySun Nov 17, 2024 11:25 pm by Julian Whybra

» Lieutenant M.G. Wales, 1st Natal Native Contingent
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptySat Nov 16, 2024 12:32 pm by Matthew Turl

» Colonel Edward William Bray, 2nd/4th Regt.
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyFri Nov 15, 2024 9:55 pm by Julian Whybra

» Royal Marine Light Infantry, Chatham
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyThu Nov 14, 2024 7:57 pm by Petty Officer Tom

» H.M.S. Forester
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyThu Nov 14, 2024 4:07 pm by johnex

» Samuel Popple
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyWed Nov 13, 2024 8:43 am by STEPHEN JAMES

» Studies in the Zulu War volume VI now available
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptySat Nov 09, 2024 6:38 pm by Julian Whybra

» Colonel Charles Knight Pearson
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyFri Nov 08, 2024 5:56 pm by LincolnJDH

» Grave of Henry Spalding
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyThu Nov 07, 2024 8:10 pm by 1879graves

» John West at Kambula
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyThu Nov 07, 2024 5:25 pm by MKalny15

» Private Frederick Evans 2/24th
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptySun Nov 03, 2024 8:12 pm by Dash

» How to find medal entitlement Coker
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptySun Nov 03, 2024 10:51 am by Kev T

» Isandlwana Casualty - McCathie/McCarthy
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptySat Nov 02, 2024 1:40 pm by Julian Whybra

» William Jones Comment
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 6:07 pm by Eddie

» Brother of Lt Young
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 5:13 pm by Eddie

» Frederick Marsh - HMS Tenedos
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 9:48 am by lydenburg

» Mr Spiers KIA iSandlwana ?
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 7:50 am by Julian Whybra

» Isandhlwana unaccounted for casualties
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 7:48 am by Julian Whybra

» Thrupps report to Surgeon General Wolfies
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyThu Oct 31, 2024 12:32 pm by Julian Whybra

» Absence of Vereker from Snook's Book
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyFri Oct 25, 2024 10:59 pm by Julian Whybra

» Another Actor related to the Degacher-Hitchcock family
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyMon Oct 21, 2024 1:07 pm by Stefaan

» No. 799 George Williams and his son-in-law No. 243 Thomas Newman
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptySat Oct 19, 2024 12:36 pm by Dash

» Alphonse de Neuville- Painting the Defence of Rorke's Drift
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyFri Oct 18, 2024 8:34 am by Stefaan

» Studies in the Zulu War volumes
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyWed Oct 16, 2024 3:26 pm by Julian Whybra

» Martini Henry carbine IC1 markings
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyMon Oct 14, 2024 10:48 pm by Parkerbloggs

» James Conner 1879 clasp
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyMon Oct 14, 2024 7:12 pm by Kenny

» 80th REG of Foot (Staffords)
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptySun Oct 13, 2024 9:07 pm by shadeswolf

» Frontier Light Horse uniform
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptySun Oct 13, 2024 8:12 pm by Schlaumeier

» Gelsthorpe, G. 1374 Private 1/24th / Scott, Sidney W. 521 Private 1/24th
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptySun Oct 13, 2024 1:00 pm by Dash

» A Bullet Bible
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptySat Oct 12, 2024 8:33 am by Julian Whybra

» Brothers Sears
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyFri Oct 11, 2024 7:17 pm by Eddie

» Zulu War Medal MHS Tamar
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyFri Oct 11, 2024 3:48 pm by philip c

» Ford Park Cemetery, Plymouth.
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyTue Oct 08, 2024 4:15 pm by rai

» Shipping - transport in the AZW
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptySun Oct 06, 2024 10:47 pm by Bill8183

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
November 2024
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
    123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
252627282930 
CalendarCalendar
Most active topics
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Please Do Not Post Ads on Our Forum
Google Chrome new standards imposed
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
In deference to other online platforms discussing the history of the Anglo-Zulu War of 1879
The missing five hours.
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
The ammunition question
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Top posting users this month
Julian Whybra
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 Bar_leftTelegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 BarTelegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 Bar_right 
Tig Van Milcroft
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 Bar_leftTelegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 BarTelegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 Bar_right 
Dash
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 Bar_leftTelegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 BarTelegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 Bar_right 
SRB1965
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 Bar_leftTelegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 BarTelegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 Bar_right 
warrior3
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 Bar_leftTelegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 BarTelegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 Bar_right 
Eddie
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 Bar_leftTelegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 BarTelegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 Bar_right 
John Young
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 Bar_leftTelegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 BarTelegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 Bar_right 
1879graves
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 Bar_leftTelegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 BarTelegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 Bar_right 
aussie inkosi
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 Bar_leftTelegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 BarTelegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 Bar_right 
Petty Officer Tom
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 Bar_leftTelegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 BarTelegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 Bar_right 
New topics
» Dr. A. Ralph Busby
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptySat Nov 16, 2024 11:36 am by Julian Whybra

» Colonel Edward William Bray, 2nd/4th Regt.
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyWed Nov 13, 2024 8:49 pm by John Young

» Samuel Popple
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyTue Nov 12, 2024 3:36 pm by STEPHEN JAMES

» Colonel Charles Knight Pearson
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyFri Nov 08, 2024 5:56 pm by LincolnJDH

» John West at Kambula
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyMon Nov 04, 2024 11:54 pm by MKalny15

» How to find medal entitlement Coker
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 9:32 am by Kev T

» Frederick Marsh - HMS Tenedos
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyThu Oct 31, 2024 1:42 pm by lydenburg

» Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyMon Oct 28, 2024 8:18 am by SRB1965

» Thrupps report to Surgeon General Wolfies
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptySun Oct 27, 2024 11:32 am by SRB1965

Similar topics
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying.
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address. Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.  If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.  We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes. There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site. The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum. The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
 

 Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004

Go down 
4 posters
AuthorMessage
Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat


Posts : 2593
Join date : 2009-04-24

Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 Empty
PostSubject: Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004   Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyWed Aug 26, 2009 8:51 pm

I was not sure where to post this. Pete I'm sure you can move it if needed.

I came across this while browsing the web.
And I personally think Sir Peter Tapsell (Con, Louth and Horncastle) raised a very good point. Infact the same question could be asked today.

Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson
Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004

Horrors in Iraq evoke memories of a distant past

"It sounded like a joke. The House of Commons certainly took it as a joke, for the comparison made by Sir Peter Tapsell (Con, Louth and Horncastle) sounded so bizarre, so old-fashioned and so obscure that it was almost impossible to react in any other way.

Sir Peter asked Jack Straw, the Foreign Secretary: "On the issue of the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, has any British leader ever before been so uninformed about a selected enemy since Lord Chelmsford invaded Zululand?"

Mr Straw joined in the laughter which greeted this question. He remarked, in a gracefully patronising way, that he is "not quite as senior" as Sir Peter (who entered Parliament in 1959) and does not have as good a grasp of "the detail of Lord Chelmsford's invasion of Zululand" (which took place in 1879, but which Sir Peter seemed rather grandly to imply he himself could remember, perhaps because he had been attached as a junior officer to Lord Chelmsford's staff).

But Mr Straw soon reverted to his prosaic role as Foreign Secretary and said of the British Government's knowledge of Iraq before the invasion: "We were very well-informed... in full possession of the facts... that Iraq was and remained in breach of its international obligations." The 12 years during which Saddam Hussein had defied the United Nations meant, Mr Straw contended, that the dictator had to reckon with "serious consequences", including the invasion.

On a day of terrible bloodshed in Iraq, this repetition of the legal case for going to war did not seem quite to rise to the level of events. Mr Straw later sent "our condolences" to the relatives of those killed in Karbala and Baghdad, but soon afterwards moved without any apparent sense of incongruity to the provision in the Transitional Administrative Law, agreed by Iraqi politicians on Monday, under which at least 25 per cent of the seats in the new assembly will be occupied by women.

This was, Mr Straw quickly admitted, before anyone else could point it out, a higher proportion of women than is found in the House of Commons and in most other elected assemblies in Europe. But there it is: Iraq's problems will be solved, he suggested, in part by electing an unusually high proportion of women.

The Foreign Secretary could well be right in theory. The question, however, at which Sir Peter was driving was whether the invaders of Iraq really understood, before embarking on that venture, what that country would be like in practice. Lord Chelmsford, it may be remembered, so grievously underestimated the dangers of invading Zululand that his forces suffered the humiliating defeat of Isandlwana, when a column of 1,600 Europeans and 2,500 natives was surprised by 10,000 Zulu and massacred.

The heroic defence soon afterwards at Rorke's Drift, where 80 men held out against 4,000 Zulu, was used to help obscure the carnage of Isandlwana, reinforcements were dispatched from Britain and the Zulu were, in time, defeated. But the general lesson, that imperial expeditions can turn out to be far more costly and protracted than was originally expected, did not seem out of place on a day of such discouraging news from Iraq.

The odd thing about Foreign Office questions is that they allow such momentous matters to be raised in such a light-hearted way. Much of yesterday's proceedings sounded like a kind of oneupmanship competition, in which three junior ministers competed with each other to establish that they had been to more exotic places.

Denis MacShane (Rotherham) told the House, "I was in Vienna recently", Chris Mullin (Sunderland South) revealed that only two weeks ago he was in Kampala, where he "discussed the situation in northern Uganda with President Museveni", and Mike O'Brien (North Warwickshire) discoursed from the dispatch box about Afghanistan, remarking airily that "I was up in Mazar-i-Sharif a few weeks ago". Mr O'Brien even took it upon himself, in a manner which Stephen Potter, who discovered and analysed oneupmanship, would have admired, to declare that conditions are different in the south of that country.

But Tam Dalyell (Lab, Linlithgow), the Father of the House, trumped them all when he said that in 1994 he was in Karbala, and was shown round by the imam, and while he knows it is a very complicated situation, he expects that today the Foreign Secretary will tell the House something about the carnage which occurred there."
Back to top Go down
John

John


Posts : 2558
Join date : 2009-04-06
Age : 62
Location : UK

Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004   Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyWed Aug 26, 2009 9:37 pm

CTSG. Good point. Here is an extract from: EGYPT—DESPATCH OF A BRITISH BATTALION TO SUAKIN.

Back in 1888 they were discussing the same problem we have now regarding inadequate British forces.

EGYPT—DESPATCH OF A BRITISH BATTALION TO SUAKIN.
LORD RANDOLPH CHURCHILL
Deb 04 December 1888

The Zulu War was a case in point. That war was commenced with inadequate British forces; defeat and disaster followed, and immense expenditure and immense efforts were required to make up for the primary and cardinal error of sending out inadequate forces. Nothing contributed so much to the fall of the Government of that day as the conduct of the Zulu War. The Boer War of 1881 was another instance of attempting to do work admitted to be difficult with inadequate British forces. Again immense expenditure and grave loss of life followed that cardinal error.

Those two instances alone would give great point and force to the contention I lay before the House, that one battalion of British Infantry with a mass of Egyptian troops is an inadequate force for the task set before it.
Back to top Go down
old historian2

old historian2


Posts : 1093
Join date : 2009-01-14
Location : East London

Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004   Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyWed Aug 26, 2009 9:55 pm

If ever there was a warning for future military action this has to be it.

THE EARL OF LONGFORD
04 March 1879

Reminded their Lordships that the step taken last year in the calling out of the Reserves had been only half a success. It was true that the men had come out with alacrity when called upon; but the military establishments were not ready to receive them. Those establishments had been so starved that the men were unable to find their clothing or their equipment, to enable them to take at once their places in the ranks. The essential condition of the Reserve system, with short service, was that all these preparations should be made beforehand.
Quote :
The Departments ought to be organized and maintained in a state of entire efficiency, if they desired to see the system work successfully.
If only today’s politicians would listen. But it’s all about money as usual. Bloody half-wits
Back to top Go down
littlehand

littlehand


Posts : 7076
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 56
Location : Down South.

Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004   Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004 EmptyWed Aug 26, 2009 10:08 pm

Old H. Its got to be this one.

Quote :
The British army. Are armed and equipped, ready for everything except war.
Back to top Go down
 
Telegraph.co.uk By Andrew Gimson Published: 12:01AM GMT 03 Mar 2004
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Rededication service for Pte. Caleb Wood & Robert Tongue 2004
» Major A.C. Hamilton. Commander of C-Troop
» By JULIAN WHYBRA Studies in the Zulu War 1879: New research I've just finished and had published

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: