Latest topics | » Royal Marine Light Infantry, ChathamToday at 7:57 pm by Petty Officer Tom » H.M.S. ForesterToday at 4:07 pm by johnex » Colonel Edward William Bray, 2nd/4th Regt.Yesterday at 8:49 pm by John Young » Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Yesterday at 10:53 am by Julian Whybra » Samuel PoppleYesterday at 8:43 am by STEPHEN JAMES » Studies in the Zulu War volume VI now availableSat Nov 09, 2024 6:38 pm by Julian Whybra » Colonel Charles Knight PearsonFri Nov 08, 2024 5:56 pm by LincolnJDH » Grave of Henry SpaldingThu Nov 07, 2024 8:10 pm by 1879graves » John West at KambulaThu Nov 07, 2024 5:25 pm by MKalny15 » Private Frederick Evans 2/24thSun Nov 03, 2024 8:12 pm by Dash » How to find medal entitlement CokerSun Nov 03, 2024 10:51 am by Kev T » Isandlwana Casualty - McCathie/McCarthySat Nov 02, 2024 1:40 pm by Julian Whybra » William Jones CommentFri Nov 01, 2024 6:07 pm by Eddie » Brother of Lt YoungFri Nov 01, 2024 5:13 pm by Eddie » Frederick Marsh - HMS TenedosFri Nov 01, 2024 9:48 am by lydenburg » Mr Spiers KIA iSandlwana ?Fri Nov 01, 2024 7:50 am by Julian Whybra » Isandhlwana unaccounted for casualtiesFri Nov 01, 2024 7:48 am by Julian Whybra » Thrupps report to Surgeon General Wolfies Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:32 pm by Julian Whybra » Absence of Vereker from Snook's BookFri Oct 25, 2024 10:59 pm by Julian Whybra » Another Actor related to the Degacher-Hitchcock familyMon Oct 21, 2024 1:07 pm by Stefaan » No. 799 George Williams and his son-in-law No. 243 Thomas NewmanSat Oct 19, 2024 12:36 pm by Dash » Alphonse de Neuville- Painting the Defence of Rorke's DriftFri Oct 18, 2024 8:34 am by Stefaan » Studies in the Zulu War volumesWed Oct 16, 2024 3:26 pm by Julian Whybra » Martini Henry carbine IC1 markingsMon Oct 14, 2024 10:48 pm by Parkerbloggs » James Conner 1879 claspMon Oct 14, 2024 7:12 pm by Kenny » 80th REG of Foot (Staffords)Sun Oct 13, 2024 9:07 pm by shadeswolf » Frontier Light Horse uniformSun Oct 13, 2024 8:12 pm by Schlaumeier » Gelsthorpe, G. 1374 Private 1/24th / Scott, Sidney W. 521 Private 1/24thSun Oct 13, 2024 1:00 pm by Dash » A Bullet BibleSat Oct 12, 2024 8:33 am by Julian Whybra » Brothers SearsFri Oct 11, 2024 7:17 pm by Eddie » Zulu War Medal MHS TamarFri Oct 11, 2024 3:48 pm by philip c » Ford Park Cemetery, Plymouth.Tue Oct 08, 2024 4:15 pm by rai » Shipping - transport in the AZWSun Oct 06, 2024 10:47 pm by Bill8183 » 1879 South Africa Medal named 1879 BARSun Oct 06, 2024 12:41 pm by Dash » A note on Captain Norris Edward Davey, Natal Volunteer Staff.Sun Oct 06, 2024 12:16 pm by Julian Whybra |
November 2024 | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri | Sat | Sun |
---|
| | | | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | | Calendar |
|
Top posting users this month | |
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. |
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address.
Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.
If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.
We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes.
There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site.
The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum.
The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. |
Fair Use Notice | Fair use notice.
This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner.
We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes.
We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website.
If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution. |
|
| Hypothesis on the positions of the Zulu reserve | |
|
+7Chelmsfordthescapegoat Julian Whybra 90th ADMIN ymob rusteze Frank Allewell 11 posters | |
Author | Message |
---|
ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: Hypothesis on the positions of the Zulu reserve Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:01 pm | |
| Bonjour Frank,
I only note that the testimonies of Uguku and Magema Fuze are complementary.
The testimony of Uguku is interesting because it gives an explanation about the "great" number of men with Matyana while his own forces were estimated before the war to 700 men. The 6 coys + "rebels" from other tribes living in the vicinity.
If my hypothesis is correct, Matyana was not present with his men the 21 January when they met Dartnell and Lonsdale. But effectively, the tactic used by his men seems to be different. The problem is the lack of certainty about the objective pursued by the « Sitholes » the 21 January. Cheers. Frédéric |
| | | rusteze
Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02
| Subject: Re: Hypothesis on the positions of the Zulu reserve Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:51 pm | |
| Just for clarification. Chelmsford says in his note of 19 January to Durnford that he intends to operate against the "two Matyanas'. Laband tells us in his notes that this refers to Matyana kaMondisi, who lived in the Qudeni bush, and Matyana kaSitshukuza who lived in the Buffalo River valley. In the various quotes are we sure which Matyana is being referred to? Chelmsford tells Durnford where each of them were (did he know this or was he guessing?). And if Chelmsford actually knew the location of M. kaMondisi was there time for him to be with the main army at Babanango and then be back at Mangeni in time to confront Dartnell? (I note Frederic that you think he was not there). Steve |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Hypothesis on the positions of the Zulu reserve Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:13 pm | |
| Frederic That's a really interesting concept. |
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: Hypothesis on the positions of the Zulu reserve Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:01 pm | |
| Bonsoir Steve, I don't know if that helps but Fynn the border agent and magistrate of Umsinga was the advisor of LC. In my opinion, the two Chiefs can't been confounded. The personal story of Matyana Kamondisi is particular. Before his "bloody" altercation with Sheptone's family twenty years before (from memory), he lived in Natal.
Frank, Happy if you have found my comment interesting. Merci beaucoup. Frédéric |
| | | xhosa2000
Posts : 1183 Join date : 2015-11-24
| Subject: Re: Hypothesis on the positions of the Zulu reserve Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:24 pm | |
| ' misjan ' concealed weapon. |
| | | xhosa2000
Posts : 1183 Join date : 2015-11-24
| Subject: Re: Hypothesis on the positions of the Zulu reserve Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:43 pm | |
| |
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: Hypothesis on the positions of the Zulu reserve Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:24 pm | |
| Bonsoir, I know that no estimate of the Zulu forces at Isandhlwana is reliable but this report from Milne is somewhere interesting : it implies that near half of the Undi force has not fought at RD.
From Lt Milne: "At Rorke's Drift one of the prisoners taken gave the Under-mentioned names as the Régiments who attacked at Isandhlwana": Undi Regiment (Cetywayo's own Regiment):....8,000. (....) Attacking force at Rorke's Drift consisted of from 4,000 to 5,000 men of the Undi Regiment".
Cheers
Frédéric
|
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: Hypothesis on the positions of the Zulu reserve Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:51 pm | |
| - ymob wrote:
- Bonjour Frank,
I only note that the testimonies of Uguku and Magema Fuze are complementary.
The testimony of Uguku is interesting because it gives an explanation about the "great" number of men with Matyana while his own forces were estimated before the war to 700 men. The 6 coys + "rebels" from other tribes living in the vicinity.
If my hypothesis is correct, Matyana was not present with his men the 21 January when they met Dartnell and Lonsdale. But effectively, the tactic used by his men seems to be different. The problem is the lack of certainty about the objective pursued by the « Sitholes » the 21 January. Cheers. Frédéric Bonsoir, Extract from an article entitled "Isandhlwana; A visit Six Months After The Disaster" by Alexander N. Montgomery, late Commandant N.N.N ("The Leisure Hour"/1882): "The zulus appear to have gone out in three columns under Matyan. At this the two other commanders remonstrated with Cetewayo, for Matyan, having been in Natal, was supposed to be tainted, but he was firm. They then dissembled and persuaded Matyan that their enemy was on the right. If Matyan went that way they would go round and drive him in. Then they advanced their horns well to their left. This manoeuvre, thought not intented to have that effect, caused Lord Chelmsford to start from the camp with his reconnoitering column. Meanwhile the Zulus horns pressed forward, keen to wash their spears, attacked the camp...". Cheers Frédéric |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Hypothesis on the positions of the Zulu reserve Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:19 am | |
| Morning Frederic Seems to contain elements from various other testimonies ie: the plot to get rid of 'Matyan'.Iit stretches the imagination with the distances between the 'right horn' and the ,left horn,' around 12 miles or so !
Frank
|
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: Hypothesis on the positions of the Zulu reserve Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:11 pm | |
| Bonsoir Frank, Relevant note... Nevertheless, it seems that the 3 commanders of the Zulu army just before Isandhlwana were really in disagreement.
Cheers
Frédéric |
| | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4175 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Hypothesis on the positions of the Zulu reserve Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:22 pm | |
| Just to say that I've been reading this thread and found it really interesting with some thought-provoking ideas thrown in. I don't feel I want to contribute to it at the moment (too much going on) but it is really tempting. I congratulate the contributors. |
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: Hypothesis on the positions of the Zulu reserve Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:16 pm | |
| It's a pity...
Cheers
Frédéric |
| | | | Hypothesis on the positions of the Zulu reserve | |
|
Similar topics | |
|
| Permissions in this forum: | You cannot reply to topics in this forum
| |
| |
| |