WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu. Lieutenant John Chard: The army doesn't like more than one disaster in a day. Bromhead: Looks bad in the newspapers and upsets civilians at their breakfast.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  Latest imagesLatest images  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» The Passing of Lady Ellen Baker.
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptySat Nov 23, 2024 11:35 pm by John Young

» Dr. A. Ralph Busby
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptySat Nov 23, 2024 9:14 am by Julian Whybra

» Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyFri Nov 22, 2024 9:31 am by Julian Whybra

» Lieutenant M.G. Wales, 1st Natal Native Contingent
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptySat Nov 16, 2024 12:32 pm by Matthew Turl

» Colonel Edward William Bray, 2nd/4th Regt.
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyFri Nov 15, 2024 9:55 pm by Julian Whybra

» Royal Marine Light Infantry, Chatham
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyThu Nov 14, 2024 7:57 pm by Petty Officer Tom

» H.M.S. Forester
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyThu Nov 14, 2024 4:07 pm by johnex

» Samuel Popple
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyWed Nov 13, 2024 8:43 am by STEPHEN JAMES

» Studies in the Zulu War volume VI now available
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptySat Nov 09, 2024 6:38 pm by Julian Whybra

» Colonel Charles Knight Pearson
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyFri Nov 08, 2024 5:56 pm by LincolnJDH

» Grave of Henry Spalding
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyThu Nov 07, 2024 8:10 pm by 1879graves

» John West at Kambula
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyThu Nov 07, 2024 5:25 pm by MKalny15

» Private Frederick Evans 2/24th
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptySun Nov 03, 2024 8:12 pm by Dash

» How to find medal entitlement Coker
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptySun Nov 03, 2024 10:51 am by Kev T

» Isandlwana Casualty - McCathie/McCarthy
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptySat Nov 02, 2024 1:40 pm by Julian Whybra

» William Jones Comment
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 6:07 pm by Eddie

» Brother of Lt Young
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 5:13 pm by Eddie

» Frederick Marsh - HMS Tenedos
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 9:48 am by lydenburg

» Mr Spiers KIA iSandlwana ?
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 7:50 am by Julian Whybra

» Isandhlwana unaccounted for casualties
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 7:48 am by Julian Whybra

» Thrupps report to Surgeon General Wolfies
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyThu Oct 31, 2024 12:32 pm by Julian Whybra

» Absence of Vereker from Snook's Book
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyFri Oct 25, 2024 10:59 pm by Julian Whybra

» Another Actor related to the Degacher-Hitchcock family
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyMon Oct 21, 2024 1:07 pm by Stefaan

» No. 799 George Williams and his son-in-law No. 243 Thomas Newman
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptySat Oct 19, 2024 12:36 pm by Dash

» Alphonse de Neuville- Painting the Defence of Rorke's Drift
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyFri Oct 18, 2024 8:34 am by Stefaan

» Studies in the Zulu War volumes
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyWed Oct 16, 2024 3:26 pm by Julian Whybra

» Martini Henry carbine IC1 markings
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyMon Oct 14, 2024 10:48 pm by Parkerbloggs

» James Conner 1879 clasp
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyMon Oct 14, 2024 7:12 pm by Kenny

» 80th REG of Foot (Staffords)
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptySun Oct 13, 2024 9:07 pm by shadeswolf

» Frontier Light Horse uniform
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptySun Oct 13, 2024 8:12 pm by Schlaumeier

» Gelsthorpe, G. 1374 Private 1/24th / Scott, Sidney W. 521 Private 1/24th
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptySun Oct 13, 2024 1:00 pm by Dash

» A Bullet Bible
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptySat Oct 12, 2024 8:33 am by Julian Whybra

» Brothers Sears
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyFri Oct 11, 2024 7:17 pm by Eddie

» Zulu War Medal MHS Tamar
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyFri Oct 11, 2024 3:48 pm by philip c

» Ford Park Cemetery, Plymouth.
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyTue Oct 08, 2024 4:15 pm by rai

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
November 2024
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
    123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
252627282930 
CalendarCalendar
Most active topics
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Please Do Not Post Ads on Our Forum
Google Chrome new standards imposed
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
In deference to other online platforms discussing the history of the Anglo-Zulu War of 1879
The missing five hours.
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
The ammunition question
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Top posting users this month
Julian Whybra
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Bar_leftChelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane BarChelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Bar_right 
Tig Van Milcroft
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Bar_leftChelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane BarChelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Bar_right 
Dash
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Bar_leftChelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane BarChelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Bar_right 
SRB1965
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Bar_leftChelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane BarChelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Bar_right 
warrior3
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Bar_leftChelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane BarChelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Bar_right 
John Young
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Bar_leftChelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane BarChelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Bar_right 
Eddie
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Bar_leftChelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane BarChelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Bar_right 
1879graves
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Bar_leftChelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane BarChelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Bar_right 
aussie inkosi
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Bar_leftChelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane BarChelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Bar_right 
MKalny15
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Bar_leftChelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane BarChelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Bar_right 
New topics
» The Passing of Lady Ellen Baker.
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptySat Nov 23, 2024 11:35 pm by John Young

» Dr. A. Ralph Busby
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptySat Nov 16, 2024 11:36 am by Julian Whybra

» Colonel Edward William Bray, 2nd/4th Regt.
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyWed Nov 13, 2024 8:49 pm by John Young

» Samuel Popple
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyTue Nov 12, 2024 3:36 pm by STEPHEN JAMES

» Colonel Charles Knight Pearson
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyFri Nov 08, 2024 5:56 pm by LincolnJDH

» John West at Kambula
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyMon Nov 04, 2024 11:54 pm by MKalny15

» How to find medal entitlement Coker
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyFri Nov 01, 2024 9:32 am by Kev T

» Frederick Marsh - HMS Tenedos
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyThu Oct 31, 2024 1:42 pm by lydenburg

» Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyMon Oct 28, 2024 8:18 am by SRB1965

Similar topics
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying.
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address. Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.  If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.  We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes. There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site. The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum. The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
 

 Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane

Go down 
5 posters
AuthorMessage
Arthur Wright




Posts : 28
Join date : 2015-10-25
Age : 58
Location : Port Edward. South Africa

Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane   Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptySat Aug 18, 2018 2:48 pm

I am not sure if anyone can assist? Being prone to questioning things, I have noticed that it appears to be generally believed that Wood was acting on Lord Chelmsford's orders when he chose to attack Hlobane.

I would like to verify this.

Does anyone perhaps know where I can obtain a copy of such an order? If, that is, such was actually given.

Many thanks in advance for any assistance in this matter.
Back to top Go down
ymob

ymob


Posts : 2268
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : France

Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane   Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptySat Aug 18, 2018 5:07 pm

Bonjour,
I don't know if it's useful but LC wrote in a letter to Wood, Durban 17 March 1879: "If you are in position to make any forward movement the 27th of this month, so that the news of it may reach the neighbourhood of Ekowe about the 29th I think it might have a good effect".
Quoted in "Lord Chelmsford's Zululand Campaign 1878-1879", Alan Sutton Publishing Ltd, 1994, pp.127-128.
Back to top Go down
http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
Guest
Guest




Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane   Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptySat Aug 18, 2018 5:12 pm

Hi Arthur
Wood had been thinking of Hlobane as early as the 3rd March and Buller had been chomping at the bit to attack Hlobane for a while and even had a go without orders

"...and I did attack it one day without leave but I had only 70 white men and had to leave the strongest part untouched. There are now about a 1000 Zulus there and they are getting cheeky"

on the 12th March Wood writes to Chelmsford and states:-
"...I may possibly go forward for a few days to the Temguin, and thence assault Hlobane but this depends of course somewhat on Cetywayo and his movements.."

In a letter to Wood dated the 17th March Chelmsford writes:-
"If you are in a position to make any forward movement about the 27th of this month, so that the  news of it may reach the neighbourhood of Ekowe about the 29th I think it might have a good effect'

To the best of my knowledge I don't think there was a direct order (unless anyone else on here knows any different) from Chelmsford to Wood telling him to  specifically attack Hlobane.
Kate
Back to top Go down
ymob

ymob


Posts : 2268
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : France

Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane   Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptySat Aug 18, 2018 5:32 pm

Huw Jones in "The Boiling Cauldron" has a similar opinion.
In addition of Kate's quotes, please take a look pp.253-258.
Cheers
Frédéric
Back to top Go down
http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
ymob

ymob


Posts : 2268
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : France

Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane   Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptySat Aug 18, 2018 6:04 pm

In particular, LC enjoined Wood in a note dated 14 March, to "do anything you like with your column, and if you would like to attack the Inhlobana pray do so" (p. 254).

Cheers
Frédéric
Back to top Go down
http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
Guest
Guest




Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane   Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptySat Aug 18, 2018 6:08 pm

Just checking Blood on the Painted Mountain by Mr Lock (page 127)
On the 19th March Chelmsford once more wrote to Wood saying:-

"I write to say that you are perfectly free and unfettered, and that any offensive operations which you think fit to undertake will not only meet with my approval, but will be heard of by me with pleasure"

Kate Very Happy
Back to top Go down
ymob

ymob


Posts : 2268
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : France

Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane   Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptySat Aug 18, 2018 6:36 pm

It seems you are right in your opinion even if Wood when he returned to Britain, "maintened that he had attacked Hlobane on Chelmsford's orders".
Very Happy
Back to top Go down
http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
Guest
Guest




Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane   Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptySat Aug 18, 2018 7:07 pm

mmmm .....now I wonder why Wood claimed that Frederic?
Rolling Eyes
Back to top Go down
ymob

ymob


Posts : 2268
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : France

Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane   Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptySat Aug 18, 2018 7:57 pm

Kate,
Minefields...
I suppose that the answer to your question depends if you are a supporter of "conspiracy's thesis" for the Hlobane's disaster...
For example, Cecil Russell, a scapegoat?
Cheers.
Frédéric
Back to top Go down
http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 1254
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 59
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane   Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptySun Aug 19, 2018 10:36 am

For such a short war - it seemed to produce a lot of scapegoats.......Chelmsford, Durnford, Russell, Weatherley, Quartermasters (with or without screw drivers), Moriarty, Carey......


Back to top Go down
Arthur Wright




Posts : 28
Join date : 2015-10-25
Age : 58
Location : Port Edward. South Africa

Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane   Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptySun Aug 19, 2018 12:18 pm

Many thanks for these replies. I shall be going through them over the next few days.
Back to top Go down
ymob

ymob


Posts : 2268
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : France

Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane   Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptySun Aug 19, 2018 1:10 pm

Stephen Manning in "Evelyn Wood VC Pillar of Empire" wrote (p. 111):
"Yet one of the these battles was to be a crushing defeat and would reveal a side to Evelyn's character, that of the political survivor, that had not yet been seen before".

He also wrote (p. 127), "Evelyn was also fortunate in that Chelmsford himself was wrilling to accept his share off the blame for the Hlobane defeat. The General was to write to the Duke of Cambridge that, 'I am quite sure that General Wood never have allowed the attack to be made had I not asked him to make a diversion in favor of the column moving forward to relieve Eshowe'".
Cheers
Frédéric
Back to top Go down
http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
xhosa2000

xhosa2000


Posts : 1183
Join date : 2015-11-24

Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane   Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptySun Aug 19, 2018 2:42 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

From Laband's Kingdom in Crisis.
Back to top Go down
steve.333




Posts : 40
Join date : 2018-05-15
Location : New Zealand

Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane   Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane EmptyTue Aug 28, 2018 4:52 am

From Zulu Frontiersman writings of C G Dennison by Ron Lock and Peter Quantrill

Umbeleni was the Induna or chief who with his men wiped out the convoy (at Ntombi River). It was stated that Umbeleni was living, or had moved, on to the Hlobane Mountain, and it appeared that Col. Wood, although instructed by Lord Chelmsford to act purely on the defensive, allowed himself to be persuaded by Col. Buller and Commandant Uys, to attack Umbeleni. Uys had a bitter score to settle against the Zulus for in earlier days he had lost many friends by Zulu treachery. In addition to this his father and two brothers had all been killed by the Zulus. His tent was next to mine in the Kambula camp and shortly after our arrival he told me how he had joined the column, not for love of the English, but rather for an opportunity to avenge those of his family and friends he had lost by the assegais of the Zulu. It would have been better for him had he remained on his farm.
As I have stated, Col. Wood was persuaded to attack Umbeleni at Hlobane and here again is the instruction as given in the regimental orders, and signed by our Acting Adjutant B. H. Lys.
March 26th 1879
EXTRACT FROM BRIGADE ORDERS
All available men of the Frontier Horse, Border Horse and Bakers’ Horse will parade at 8 a.m. for patrol.
Each man will carry seventy rounds of ammunition, a blanket and two days’ rations, one day to be of preserved meat. Spare ammunition to be carried by the corps.


This was the type of material that Dennison left out of his original "A Fight to a Finish", 1904 - presumably because Wood was by then "Field Marshal Sir Evelyn Wood, a father-figure of the British army" as stated by Ron Lock
Back to top Go down
 
Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Coach Ride. Lord Chelmsford & Crealock.
» Chelmsford's choice.
» lord chelmsfords' place of birth

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: