Army Pay Department Personnel

If anyone comes across or has any information relating to the Army Pay Department or Army Pay Corps that would be appreciated.

All I have thus far is:
It was on the 22 January 1879 that Honorary Major Francis Freeman White, Paymaster and 896 Paymaster-Sergeant George Edward Mead were killed during this action.  Attached to 1st Battalion, 24th Regiment of Foot, they were not expected to fight alongside the infantry, but circumstances found them at the Battle of Isandlwana were they had no choice but to fight and die alongside the other 1,300 casualties.  

According to Lt Col Mike Snook, “The Mbonambi charged in from all directions, flailing assegais, knobkerries and shields. The momentum of the assault drove the fight back into the 2nd Battalion tents. No doubt Paymaster White did sterling service with his revolver, but it was in this fight that he fell. Some men rallied again in a small knot just behind the ammunition wagons; they held their ground for a minute or two, until at length their pouches were empty. After a savage and supremely violent flurry of hand-to-hand fighting, this last remnant of A Company was also annihilated

Anwyll,

I am going to lazy here and simply cut & paste White’s obituary from The South African Campaign of 1879:

FRANCIS FREEMAN WHITE, PAYMASTER AND MAJOR, 24TH REGIMENT (2ND WARWICKSHIRE).

MAJOR FRANCIS FREEMAN WHITE, who was killed at Isandhwana on the 22nd of January, 1879, was the second son of Benjamin Finch White, Esquire, of Rath Cahill, King's County, Ireland. He was born on the 5th of February, 1829, and was educated by the Rev. H. Tyrrel, curate of Shinrone, King's County.
He obtained a direct commission by purchase in February, 1850, being gazetted to an ensigncy in the ist Battalionof the 24th Regiment, and proceeded to the depôt of the corps at Chatham in the following April; shortly afterwards he embarked for India to join the head-quarters of the regiment, then in Bengal. In May, 1854, he became Lieutenant by purchase, and in July, 1856, Paymaster. He served with the regiment through the Indian mutiny, performing many arduous and important duties, and subsequently obtained the medal. In 1859 he returned from India to England, where he remained until 1866, when he again proceeded abroad with the regiment; he was stationed with it for four years at Malta and Gibraltar, and embarked with it, at the latter end of 1874, for the Cape.
Major White served with his battalion in South Africa through the Gaika and Galeka campaign of 1877, from the commencement of the outbreak until its suppress bring prepared to act agains toe Zulus in the event of their refusing on time-ply with the terms of Sir Bartle Frere's ultimatum. He took part with the regiment in the subsequent advance of Colonel Glyn's column, in January, 1079, into the enemy's country, and was present at the storming of Sirayo's stronghold in the Bashee Valley. He then accompanied the regiment to Isandhwana, and in the disastrous encounter with the enemy at that position on the 22nd of January, shared the fate of the bulk of his gallant corps: he fell in harness doing his duty in the fighting line of skirmishers, and much aiding in the defence by bringing ammunition to replenish the exhausted pouches.
In the death of Major White the country lost a gallant and able servant. He was the oldest officer in his battalion, having served with it without intermission, from the 15th of February, 1850, till the day of his death, and he was justly beloved not only by his brother officers and the men of the regiment, but by all who knew him.
Major White married, in 1874, Agnes, daughter of the late Captain Tracey, R.A.

I often wonder what Paymaster White and his Pay Sgt were doing with the Column, is there any record of 'pay chests' being lost in the aftermath of the battle?

Simon,

They were basically part of the battalion’s establishment.

Only last night I was doing some work on 2nd/24th’s Paymaster, John Mahoney.  Who in mid-February 1879 was riding around in company with some well-known figures in the area of the Mooi River.

JY

Simon,

There was a District Paymaster for the region of Natal and the Transvaal, that was Staff Paymaster W. C. Ball of the Army Pay Department. It would have been his overall responsibility for insure the payments were received by the battalion paymasters. Battalion paymasters would have to been responsible for prize money gained from cattle seizures.

JY

Thanks a lot, do you know if the soldiers were paid at a set period - monthly (it whatever) and presumably any unpaid wages would be part of the affects claimed by the family (in the case of fatalities)

I've also read that each Company had some kind of savings scheme/bank, which they could put any spare money into?

I would assume that PM White would want to keep his finger on the pulse, regarding captive cattle.

Simon,

The Pay & Muster Rolls covered a three month period, deductions & alike would appear in these ledgers, that were maintained by the respective Paymaster and his staff.

There would have been pay-parades if the unit were in barracks or depot.

JY

Hence the division of the Pay Lists and Muster Rolls now housed at TNA into Quarters.

John
Can I pick your brain? Whilst technically White was in the Army Pay Dept. and attached to the 1/24th, did the same technicality apply to Pay-Sergt. Mead? I'm not sure that there were any enlisted men in the A.P.D. and it functioned instead as did the Army Medical Department. Was Mead simply appointed by the regt. from among its sergts. to assist White in his work?

Julian,

George Mead remained a member of the 1st/24th, hence his battalion no. 896.  He was appointed to his role on 16th February 1876.

The Army Pay Department was established in 1878, and was an officer only department.

Other-ranks were only introduced to the Army Pay Corps on establishment in 1893.

JY

Thanks, John. As I thought. Anwyll's opening post in this thread seemed to suggest otherwise.

ANWYLL,

I was doing some research on Wood’s Column in early March 1879.

I discovered Paymaster Alexander Lowry M’Donald, A.P.D., was based at the Balte’s Spruit laager, if that is of any use to you?

JY

Hi, This is probably of no real interest to anyone else but I do know these things so I'll just try and keep it as brief as possible.

I found this thread while searching online. 896 Paymaster-Sergeant George Edward Mead, 1st Battalion 24th Regiment of Foot, was my great-great grandfather. He was born in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire in 1847 and died in the Battle of Isandlwana aged 31. He left a widow, stepdaughter and five daughters, who all moved back to England from King William's Town afterwards.

I'm sure he enlisted via the army administrative staff training route at Chatham and was posted to the 1st/24th in Malta in the mid-1860s. At the time the 24th Regiment's home depot was in Dublin. Relocated to and back from Gibraltar in 1872 Corporal Mead was again at Chatham to study and was promoted to Paymaster-Sergeant, while his Maltese wife had their first daughter staying at his family's home in High Wycombe.

They went back to the 1st/24th in Gibraltar, had another daughter, then they took a brief trip to Brecon in 1873 when the regimental home depot relocated there. The second baby was christened in the chapel on the base. Around the turn of the year 1874-1875 the 1st/24th were posted to the Cape Colony and my great grandmother Catherine Susan Mead was born and baptised on the army base in Cape Town in 1875. Then it was on to the Eastern Cape to King William's Town in 1877 where his final two daughters were born.

Honorary Major, Paymaster Francis Freeman White and Paymaster-Sergeant George Edward Mead appear in a headquarters staff photograph with the rest of the soldiers of H Company and also the artillery gunners, grooms, cartwrights, blacksmiths, cooks, administrative staff etc. The photograph was taken in King William's Town in October 1878, three months before they were all killed.

A copy of the photograph appears in Ian Knight's book 'Zulu Rising' in the section of photographs and illustrations between pages 364 and 365. For anyone owning the book, they are at the left of the plate immediately behind the reclined front row. Left to right there's the drummer boy, George Mead and Paymaster White.

At some point in the skirmishes at the Battle of Isandlwana I believe the 1st Battalion's tent, which was isolated from all the other tents by a track, was viewed as unsafe and the administrative staff relocated everything to the 2nd Battalion's tent in the centre of the camp. That's where the bodies of the 1st Battalion's staff were found, killed alongside their 2nd Battalion comrades in the fighting around the 2nd Battalion's tent.

George Edward Mead has many direct descendants, many hundreds of them in fact. And I think that must be true of many of those who died in the Zulu Wars on both sides of the conflict.

Hi, This is probably of no real interest to anyone else but I do know these things so I'll just try and keep it as brief as possible.

I found this thread while searching online. 896 Paymaster-Sergeant George Edward Mead, 1st Battalion 24th Regiment of Foot, was my great-great grandfather. He was born in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire in 1847 and died in the Battle of Isandlwana aged 31. He left a widow, stepdaughter and five daughters, who all moved back to England from King William's Town afterwards.

I'm sure he enlisted via the army administrative staff training route at Chatham and was posted to the 1st/24th in Malta in the mid-1860s. At the time the 24th Regiment's home depot was in Dublin. Relocated to and back from Gibraltar in 1872 Corporal Mead was again at Chatham to study and was promoted to Paymaster-Sergeant, while his Maltese wife had their first daughter staying at his family's home in High Wycombe.

They went back to the 1st/24th in Gibraltar, had another daughter, then they took a brief trip to Brecon in 1873 when the regimental home depot relocated there. The second baby was christened in the chapel on the base. Around the turn of the year 1874-1875 the 1st/24th were posted to the Cape Colony and my great grandmother Catherine Susan Mead was born and baptised on the army base in Cape Town in 1875. Then it was on to the Eastern Cape to King William's Town in 1877 where his final two daughters were born.

Honorary Major, Paymaster Francis Freeman White and Paymaster-Sergeant George Edward Mead appear in a headquarters staff photograph with the rest of the soldiers of H Company and also the artillery gunners, grooms, cartwrights, blacksmiths, cooks, administrative staff etc. The photograph was taken in King William's Town in October 1878, three months before they were all killed.

A copy of the photograph appears in Ian Knight's book 'Zulu Rising' in the section of photographs and illustrations between pages 364 and 365. For anyone owning the book, they are at the left of the plate immediately behind the reclined front row. Left to right there's the drummer boy, George Mead and Paymaster White.

At some point in the skirmishes at the Battle of Isandlwana I believe the 1st Battalion's tent, which was isolated from all the other tents by a track, was viewed as unsafe and the administrative staff relocated everything to the 2nd Battalion's tent in the centre of the camp. That's where the bodies of the 1st Battalion's staff were found, killed alongside their 2nd Battalion comrades in the fighting around the 2nd Battalion's tent.

George Edward Mead has many direct descendants, many hundreds of them in fact. And I think that must be true of many of those who died in the Zulu Wars on both sides of the conflict.

John H
Thanks for your post.  Your great-great grandfather, despite his rank of paymaster-sergeant, was in the 1/24th, not in the Army Pay Department but, that aside, what you have to say is interesting.
The photo you refer to is a photo of H coy 1/24th; it is not a photo of HQ staff plus H coy.  The legend on the original says as much.  Neither are there any artillery gunners in the photo.  I'm sorry to disappoint you you but the two soldiers to the right of the drummer boy (as you look at the photo) are not White and Mead.  They are two ordinary privates.  Neither one looks like White; neither one has a sergeant's stripes or an officer's uniform.  They are both dressed as Other Ranks.  I'm not sure where you might have got the mistaken idea about the photo from.
Re your information regarding the movement of the '1st bn. tent' during battle, I know of no evidence of any tent movement or even a suggestion of it.  And I don't know where you got the idea from that this occurred.  If you do have some primary source which states that this happened then I'm sure that the whole forum would be interested to know what it is and where it is located.

John H.,

Equally there are no artillerymen in the photograph. They are all infantrymen.

JY

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Hon. Major F. F. White, King William’s Town, 1878.
White is standing in the centre of the five standing officers.
(Detail of a photograph in the John Young Collection.)

JY

Julian Whybra, John Young

What you both say is really very interesting as it contradicts a lot of my previously held notions. It's dusted away a few cobwebs.

For clarity I'm a pensioner and I have no family archive, I'm just winging it - it's all based on old stories and memories. Catherine Susan Mead died in 1965 aged 90. So that's nearly 60 years ago now. No, George certainly wasn't in the APD. He wasn't an officer, and he enlisted as a private, though not in Dublin. George was probably knowledgeable as to how to enter into an army administrative career due to the influence of his step-father Staff Sergeant Richard Pizzey of the Royal Buckinghamshire Militia.

I'm probably just another example of sloppily passed on family history meets expert military historian and I'm genuinely not attached to anything I got wrong here at all. I'm always willing to re-evaluate things. I wasn't suggesting they relocated the actual 1st Battalion 24th tent, they just took the moveable military items within the tent; the battalion papers, books, legers, cash boxes etc. I should have left the original sentence as worded, it changed in the edit and was left less precise.

Yours was exactly the same observation I myself had of the lack of any visible battlefield rank insignia. It would contradict every costumed military film I've ever watched. Everyone always shows their army rank. The family resemblance is very striking though. The photograph was taken at the right headquarters at the right time and it does look like the face in the photo my great grandmother had of him. But you must be right about both men, the uniforms, and the legend on the photo says H coy so I can't argue.

John
When you write "they just took the moveable military items within the tent; the battalion papers, books, legers, cash boxes etc.", I'm afraid there is no evidence that this was the case either. Apart from not making any military sense to start doing that at the climax of a battle, no survivor mentions any such action. As you suggest, this is just another old family concoction.

Julian

No, you're absolutely right, there's no evidence. I think it's an attempt to explain where the bodies were found - it was inexplicable - and the condition they were in, and the lasting impact this had on his family at the time. If they or the other widows and families can only imagine something palatable to fit the least horrific narrative then that's what they're all going to discuss and go for on the long boat trip back to England, with their own adaptations to fit.

John
Well, one positive thing from your e-mail is that it's confirmed George Mead's middle name which is always useful. The devil is in the detail!