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61MECH
Posts : 6 Join date : 2022-05-26
![The Wrecked Camp Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: The Wrecked Camp Sun Jul 14, 2024 8:51 am | |
| Good day. Can anybody help me with a copy of this essay by Julian Whybra ?
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| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4087 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
![The Wrecked Camp Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The Wrecked Camp Sun Jul 14, 2024 11:01 am | |
| 61Mech The essay was in Studies in the Zulu War volume IV. These are on sale at Brecon though they might have sold out (they are not good on keeping up their stock levels). If you are unable to buy one then please contact me direct. I've sent my e-mail toy by private message. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Danny1960
![Danny1960](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/3022-35.png)
Posts : 59 Join date : 2020-01-13 Age : 63 Location : Khon Kaen In Thailand
![The Wrecked Camp Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The Wrecked Camp Tue Jul 16, 2024 3:14 am | |
| Here’s a bit of his memoirs regarding ‘ big beard ‘
Dartnell knew the chiefs of several kraals, so I saw something of the life of the raw Zulus, nature's gentlemen and ladies — very different from the Kaffir and the degenerated Zulu brought up in a town, where contact with a low class of white men seems to alter their nature. Travellers and officials who have had to deal with natives in many parts of the world all agree in stating that the Zulu is the finest specimen of the black man to be found anywhere. Settlers who have employed him for years, soldiers who have fought against him, — all are equally en- thusiastic as to his good qualities. Every one who has had anything to do with the raw (kraal) Zulus declares them to be brave, truthful, and moral to a degree unknown amongst civilised nations. Sub- sequently, after my return from the other side of the Tugela, I saw a good deal of the kraal Zulu, and this only served to increase my appreciation of that fine race. When at Eshowe, after inspecting Mansell's Native Police, I signalled with my stick (knowing nothing of the language) how they were to extend, then gradually close in, firing, to capture an old fort : they did it perfectly at the second attempt. One of these men was called " Big Beard." I asked the reason, as he had no beard, and Mansell said it was because at the battle of Isandhlwana he had killed
ZULUS' ACCOUNT OF ISANDHLWANA. 337
an English soldier with a big beard. The Zulus who took part in that fight spoke enthusiastically about the grand way in which the two last small squares on the slope of the hill met death. With their ammunition all expended, and nothing but the bayonet left, the Zulus say the British made fun of them, chaffing and calling them to " come on." In the final melee the Zulus said our men fought so desperately that each English soldier killed at least ten Zulus. Of one man who had taken refuge in a deep crevice in the rock they spoke with unbounded admiration. This man, all alone, kept up the fight, firing steadily, killing with every shot, until his last cartridge was gone, when he coolly fixed his bayonet and dashed out amongst them, stabbing right and left till over- powered by assegai-thrusts. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | SRB1965
![SRB1965](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/2457-70.png)
Posts : 1235 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
![The Wrecked Camp Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The Wrecked Camp Wed Jul 17, 2024 10:10 am | |
| Sometimes you have to take Zulu statements (as well as European ones) with a grain of salt and try to determine what situation the statement was taken in.
We're they trying to ingratiate themselves to captors? Did they actually see the event themselves? Was there any leading (unrecorded) questions from the statement takers? Are there any translation issues?
There is a tendency on a Facebook group I look at, to question European accounts but to take Zulu accounts as 'gospel' |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4087 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
![The Wrecked Camp Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The Wrecked Camp Wed Jul 17, 2024 12:46 pm | |
| SRB I tend to agree BUT in this case, apart from the obviously over-inflated remarks ("each man killed ten Zulus") there are little 'unnecessary' details which have a ring of truth about them ("two last small squares on the slope", "nothing but the bayonet", "one man...in a deep crevice"). Why mention these at all if they didn't happen? |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | SRB1965
![SRB1965](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/2457-70.png)
Posts : 1235 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
![The Wrecked Camp Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The Wrecked Camp Wed Jul 17, 2024 1:23 pm | |
| Hi,
You are correct, I have no doubt the basis of some of what was reported did happen - they have been backed up by other accounts.
I feel that the 'caveman' dashing out to fight & die, a little bit far - mainly because it is not mentioned elsewhere (not impossible perhaps)
I am a big advocate of Zulu testimony and I feel more should have been done to 'debrief' Zulus after the war (with hindsight of course) but I do try to think 'is it feasible' especially with added 'extras' (eg Younghusband shaking hands)
I do find M'kzulus accounts interesting - not just because of his answers but also because of the questions asked - like the 'integrators' were trying to prove or disprove 'rumours'
Last edited by SRB1965 on Wed Jul 17, 2024 3:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4087 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
![The Wrecked Camp Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The Wrecked Camp Wed Jul 17, 2024 2:50 pm | |
| A Freudian slip there - 'interrogators' rather than 'integrators'! The B in SRB doesn't stand for Biden does it? (Joke) |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | SRB1965
![SRB1965](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/2457-70.png)
Posts : 1235 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
![The Wrecked Camp Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The Wrecked Camp Wed Jul 17, 2024 3:57 pm | |
| - Julian Whybra wrote:
- A Freudian slip there - 'interrogators' rather than 'integrators'!
The B in SRB doesn't stand for Biden does it? (Joke) Sometimes it feels like it should - my mind is fine but my fingers are like a bag of sausages and my phone screen is very small. I keep phoning JY up by mistake because I can't work my phone. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4087 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
![The Wrecked Camp Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The Wrecked Camp Wed Jul 17, 2024 4:33 pm | |
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| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | | The Wrecked Camp | |
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