ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS

Just to throw something else into the pot.

Charles Norris-Newman who served as special correspondent for The London Standard in the Zulu War.

During this time I (Norris-Newman) and a friend of mine named Palmer, who had accompanied the expedition as conductor, with a lot of waggons, had each got a rifle, and were steadily taking pot-shots, at any native who made himself visible, from the top of the waggon, which position gave us great advantage. Palmer (who is a crack shot, having hunted large game in the interior for years) brought several to the ground. One shot in particular was a great success; about a hundred yards off, - straight in front of us, thre Zulus had managed to gain shelter of a thick bush, whose roots formed an impenetrable barrier to even our hot fire, and it was from this bush that the shot was fires which killed poor Johnson (2nd Lieutenant G C J Johnson, 99th Regiment). His death was, however, quickly avenged, as we both arranged to wait quietly until the Zulus fired again, and then taking good aim we fired together just as two of them raised themselves on their knees to get fair aim. The one aimed at by Palmer sprung up high in the air, with outstretched arms, and fell backwards dead, shot clean through the forehead, as we found out afterwards, the one I aimed at was only wounded, but in a little while both he and the third Zulu were killed by some of the 99th. After the battle the three were found close together, and Palmer and I took and divided the trophies of war, including their native dress, arms, and accoutrements; and we kept them yet, as most prized and hardy won trophies.

That's an interesting pot Andy. And a pretty good 'pot' from Palmer.
The first report appeared in The Standard' the special correspondent was Noggs, Noggs has a friend called Palmer. Whats the odds?

I quick look on the internet, reveals more questions about Noggs than answers about Palmer.

He was a bit of a 'character'.......

There was a Deputy Commissary-General Palmer:-

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Could this be that same friend of Noggs (though maybe not the Hlobane fella)?

http://www.law.mq.edu.au/research/colonial_case_law/colonial_cases/less_developed/natal/palmer_v_hutchinson_1880/

There were no Ferreira's Horse attached to Wood's column at Hlobane.
The paper definitely states that Palmer was rescued and survived whereas Parminter was killed so they seem to rule one another out.
I think Palmer may have been an NCO and in the report the NC may have been omitted and I also think that if no man called Palmer can be found at all, the name is incorrect. It could easily be any name ending in -er for example, the memorable bit.

Maybe his real name was Kelly and Palmer was just nickname...

Please forgive my flippancy.

JY

I really appreciate the excerpt from Huw Jones book and the original article from the Standard - great stuff. The Huw Jones article in Natalia is excellent stuff. Dennison's account does not paint Woods in a good light. Which is why it's been suppressed for so long I guess. And Jones has presented it beautifully. Plus all the background on Weatherley and others which helps to get a more accurate feeling of the events.

It would be great if the Palmer mystery could be solved.

Is it known how many survivors there were from the Border Horse?

steve
There were present Lieut.-Col. F. A. Weatherley and 53 officers and ORs of the Border Horse.
KIA were Lieut.-Col. F. A. Weatherley, Lieuts. Lys, Pool, Sub-Lieuts. Parminter, R. Weatherley, RSM Brown, Sergt.-Maj. Fisher, QMS Russell, ORS Brissenden, Pay.-Sergt. Johnson, Farrier-Maj. Freire, Trumpet-Maj. Meredith, Sergt. Stewart, Corps. Blackmore, Coetzee, Ford, Porter, van Hasselt, Lance-Corp. Bernhardt, Trptr. Reilly, Trprs. Barth, Bourdoin, Brooks, Cameron, Craig, Craney, Darcy, Evans, Farquharson, Hartman, Jeffries, King, Mann, Martin, Milma, Jacob Muller, Jno. Muller, Mulot, Reid, Shephard, Thompson, Underwood, Westhusan, Williams, Wynan
Total 45
MIA was Trpr. Grandier
Total 1 (later rescued)
WIA was Trpr. Hammond
Total 1
i.e. 7 survivors plus Hammond and eventually Grandier = 9

very good!

Julian, many thanks for that excellent list - Steve

[quote="Julian Whybra"]The paper definitely states that Palmer was rescued and survived whereas Parminter was killed so they seem to rule one another out.[quote]

I was reading JL 'Rise and Fall'...... last night and on page 315 - it mentions Lt Parmenter of Bakers Horse at Ulundi.

Is this an error on JL behalf or possibly another man different to Lt Parminter?

Cheers

Sime

It's possible - the names are similar enough and Baker's Horse were also at Hlobane. But proof, Watson! Proof!

Why not take a look at https://www.1879zuluwar.com/t3848-major-w-g-parminter-late-bakers-horse

That way you might have your answer.

I would venture the Prof’ has made a faux pas or a typo’.

JY

Damn and blast....there goes my last shot at being considered 'serious'........back to being a silly student.....

This Archer issue is not over yet ...

It turns out John W W Archer was known to his friends as Jack. John Young, earlier in this thread mentioned "There was a Sergeant Archer serving in the Buffalo Border Guard, sadly no forename or initial shown, from Dundee, Natal."

On Victorian Wars site here http://www.victorianwars.com/viewtopic.php?t=4709 there is a list of BBG members in Jan 1879, which includes a Jack Archer. Could this Jack Archer be the same Sgt Archer mentioned by John?

And then more speculation - is it possible that Jack Archer of the BBG after surviving Isandlwana, then joined the Border Horse, was listed as Cpl John Archer and went on to survive Hlobane in March? Too far fetched? Could be two different men?

With the scant records available to the ordinary person, not easy to sort these things out. Any comments would be great.

Hi Steve
I looked through Dutton's ' Forgotten Heroes ' and listed in the BBG there's a Sgt Archer ( no initials ) Medal with Clasp 1879 , and also a Trpr Archer ( which states '' not on Medal Roll '' ) , two Archers ? .
90th

And there's this from 1983, some good info.

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Thanks 90th - that's interesting that there are two Archers listed - pity there are no initials.

It is definitely possible that there were two Archers. For example, on the roll of the Western Light Horse some 20 years later, there is a Tpr Jno Wm Walter Archer and a SSM John Wm Archer side by side. I'm pretty sure the Tpr Jno Wm Walter Archer is my gg uncle, but not sure who the other is ...

Just heard a story yesterday from a cousin, told to him many years ago by his grandfather:
- Jack Archer was a scout at Isandlwana. When the order was given "every man for himself" he raised his sowrd and shouted "if you want to get out of here, follow me". Those who did hacked their way out through the Zulu warriors

May be some truth in it!

@xhosa thanks for the book suggestion - will try find a copy

Hi Les
Yes that's a very good book , certainly worth having .
Steve.333
The book on the Buffalo Boder Guard is extremely hard to find , there is one currently on ebay.com sitting at , or near 50 GBP's , Postage is another 17 GBP's , when I've seen them they are always expensive .
90th

Thanks 90th - that is quite pricy - will keep my eyes open for one - Steve

Good Luck Steve , I actually sold one last week for 75 GBP's , which I think was very reasonably priced , have seen them for 100 GBP's ! .
90th

ouch!

Hiya steve.333. your very welcome. hey Gary those prices really surprised
me!. i'm sure many newer member's would be put off by those number's.

Difficult. Archer's presence at Isandhlwana would need corroboration from another source ideally. The list of BBG kia is rigidly fixed and the contemporary list of survivors posted at Helpmekaar and published in the papers is constant.
Keep digging.

Hi

Has anyone got a 'live' database or list of the number of survivors of Isandlwana (including the date they have been 'discovered')?

I know various people have compiled lists on the forum.

I am fascinated by the way the number of survivors (obviously the number hasn't changed but research has revealed more of them) has increased over the past 50 years or so - since books like TWOTS etc

If not would how easy would it be to set up a controlled (eg edit protected) list? - this is probably a question for ADMIN......

Cheers

Sime

Yes, I have. Published with each edition of England's Sons (next ed. to be the 9th).

Not for any real reason.. but it's a very good documentary, worth a watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4h6iZBvrkw

The full doc is an hour long.

@xhosa - is the full version available anywhere that you know?

Hiya steve.333. it's called,
Adventure For Boys.. The Lost Worlds of Rider-Haggard. narrated by Benedict Allen.
i have it as a mpg file on my pc. if any member's have it on disc they might be able
to sort you a copy, i don't do disc's anymore, that's old tech now. if you don't get a
response let me know and i will put it on a pen drive and send it to you. cheers

Well I'm still a boy who needs adventure, so it sounds perfect
Thanks xhosa, I'll see what I can find

Frank Allewell wrote:

The article itself is a bit confusing at times Simon but yes Archer should have got a lot more than a SAGS.
Brave man Steve, the family rumours are coming together as fact.
Brilliant.

I've been reading "Zulu Frontiersman" by Ron Lock and Peter Quantrill. Our Archer gets a few mentions. This is what Charles Dennison had to say:

February/March 1879
"While at Luneburg one of our men, Archer, who is at present an overseer of the divisional council of Vryburg, was sent with a dispatch to Wakkerstroom and on his return had a narrow escape: the Zulus waylaid him but he dashed through them and escaped. He got a bullet through his hat which his comrades chaffed him about saying it was he who had made a target of his hat, etc., etc."

On the escape from Hlobane, 27th March 1879
"I crossed a small stream and caught up with about twenty-seven men, mainly of Capt. Barton’s troop of the Frontier Light Horse, with a Sgt. Winterfeldt, a German, who was urging the men on for all he knew. A few of my men were also there, including Archer and Sgt. Brown, eight in all. One was killed later, a trooper Martin by name. I helped him out a long way but he lost his head and was killed. Brown and Archer rendered me great assistance. On one occasion after passing some mealie lands, we heard a shout, and looking back saw a white man running towards us pursued by Zulus. I called to Brown and Archer and they turned. I covered them by firing a couple of shots from my scanty supply of ammunition. They succeeded in reaching the man, one of the FLH, and saved his life. I saw many, very many, daring acts of bravery that memorable day, the 29th March 1879, combined with actions also that were of no credit to men, but so we always find."

Much later, probably late December 1900
"Near the nek, not far from Boshoff, we were met by the Commandant and some mounted men. Among the latter was one of my old Border Horse troopers of 1879, Archer by name, one of the seven who escaped with me on the fatal Zlobanne [Hlobane] day in Zululand, and a man who that day under my own personal observation earned the VC. I was informed that near Boshoff he had saved the life of an officer under very heavy fire. He was not rewarded. This same man later served with me to the end of the last war (ie ABW), always a willing, active, and good soldier."

One first reading, I thought that Dennison had recommended him for a VC, but perhaps he meant that in his opinion he had acted in such a way as to earn a VC.

Hi Steve
Fairly sure that Colonial Officers couldn't recommend the VC ? , happy to be corrected .
90th

Hmm, yes I'm sure you're right about that - thanks 90th

Steve,
Yes I think he meant that the action was 'worthy' of a VC.

There is a post on Victorian Wars Forum (a few years old now)
http://www.victorianwars.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4709
where a list of BBG members at the time of the Zulu War was given
Any ideas where this list may have come from?
Thanks
Steve

Hi Steve
There's a list of the BBG who were on duty at Helpmekaar mid Dec 1878. It's in ' The Buffalo Border 1879 ; The Anglo Zulu War In Northern Natal ' by John Laband & Paul Thompson with Sheila Henderson .
90th

Thanks Pete for the link - very informative

90th, I have been keeping an eye out for a copy of that book at a reasonable price ...
But I think I may have the same list in "Forgotten Heroes" by Roy Dutton
That list has two Archers one a sergeant, one a corporal, but no names or even initials.
The list given by Phillip Gill on Victorian Wars lists a Trooper Jack Archer ...
So there would seem to be more that list out there

Hi Steve
I saw a copy recently on Ebay for 45 GBP's , which is quite reasonable to be honest , usually much more expensive , and not easy to come by... especially at a reasonable price . There's only one Archer in the Laband / Thompson / Henderson book , he's listed as a Trooper and no initial , I see it states in Dutton that Trooper Archer isn't on the Medal Roll .
90th

Hi Steve .333
Just checked Terry Sole's ' For God Queen and Colony ' Sgt Archer ( no initial ) was from Dundee if that helps ?
90th

https://www.roydutton.co.uk/my-books/forgotten-heroes-zulu-basuto-wars/

Thanks 90th and Littlehand for the links and info - sorry I didn't answer sooner!
Still haven't given up
Steve

I see that 4 BBG members were not on the medal roll ... why would that be the case? Were they not present at any of the actions where BBG were involved?

The 4 elected to remain in Natal.

This thread is a couple of years old I know but I've never read it before. The possible identity of 'Palmer' who was said to be an officer in the Frontier Light Horse rescued by Cpl Archer and Sgt Brown interested me.
No Palmer can be found listed in FLH records, but it was suggested that perhaps he was with Ferreira's Horse. Julian said that Ferreira's Horse were not at Hlobane, but The South African Military History Society journal (Vol 4 No 5) does say that Ferreira's Horse together with the Border Horse had been transferred from Rowland's Column to Wood's Column under Buller's command. Given this could the rescued 'Palmer' be the Trooper Palmer of Ferreira's Horse as suggested?

Unlikely, as humble troopers could not attach themselves at they saw fit to expeditions.
However, who knows? I can be wrong. Pursue the matter and see if there is any reason for some of Ferreira's Horse to have been there...

I have copied the subject to Cam, hopefully he will shed some light.