259 Private Jenkins

While looking for some information on Rainforth, I can across a 259 Private David Jenkins who served in Rainforth’s company of the 1/24th, which was based at Helpmekaar. Quite a distance away from Isandlwana. Its suggested that the actual location of Jenkins cannot be substantiated. Did he survive Isandlwana?
This Letter suggests he did.
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Hi littlehand .
The only D. Jenkins I found in the Medal Roll is D. Jenkins 295 . The roll says he may have recieved 2 clasps
77-78 and 79 which is extremely rare ! . In England's sons by Julian Whybra a very detailed book on those who
were at Isandlwana and R.Drift , goes on to say .....

25B / 295 Pte . David Jenkins . In a letter home ( In Welch ) dated 28th Jan 79 published in ' The Merthyr Express '
22nd March 79 and in Welch in ' Y Gwladgarwr ' 28th March 79 this 1 / 24th G coy Soldier claimed that he was '' One
of the ten that escaped out of the 5 Coy's '' from Isandlwana . There is no evidence to support this - G Coy was stationed
at Helpmekaar at the time though Jenkin's himself was at R.Drift ( see page 70 fn.3 ) and thus the above survivor's claim may
refer to the 1/ 24th men at the drift . . Hope this helps .
cheers 90th.

This is the only Jenkins at RD

Jenkins, James. Private. 25B/841, killed in action 22 January 1879

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Why would he write a letter to his parents, suggesting he took part in the Battle of Isandlwana. When he was at Rorkes Drift.

Bit confused. he writes

"Dear Father, please go personally or write a letter to Isaac Lewis and tell him that his son-in-law, Sgt. Chambers is killed. His son Thomas is alive but still in hospital with fever. He had a narrow escape. He crept on his hands and knees and came from the hospital to the fort through all the firing Please give my love to all and write soon"

The only hospital that i know of was at Rorke's Drift.

However there was a Sgt.-I. Msktry Chambers, G. 1011 Killed In Action at Isandlwana.

Hi Ctsg.
25 /B 841 . J. Jenkins was indeed KIA ( Assegaied ) R.D . ACCORDING to Julian Whybra this from England's Sons .
David Jenkins is more than likely also at R.D . Here are some details ...........

25 B / 295 . Pvt . David Jenkin's Letter home ( see page 30 ) Indicates a possible presence at R.D. , however ,
'' The Times '' ( October 79 ) on his return home , RECORDS HIS PRESENCE THERE , HE WAS in possession of a
Rorkes Drift Ladies ' Testimonial Fund Bible ( Inscribed on the Flyleaf ) , AND HE IS ALSO RECORDED IN THE 1 /24TH
record of services as having been PRESENT the Drift . Serg Wilson , Pvt's Payton , Desmond , 25B / 295 DAVID JENKINS
and Roy 1 / 24th HAD BEEN SENT TO THE REAR WITH PRISONERS according to a letter written by COL SGT Wm Edwards
KIA Isandlwana . The bible , Record and Letter are all in the RRW Museum . En-route back to the Column Roy was admitted
to Hospital at R.D . Thus David Jenkins WAS NOT WITH G Coy on the 22nd Jan . His inclusion among the defenders SOLVES
the riddle of ' Others ' having seen ' Jenkins ' both in the Hospital and on the wall ( Confusing this man with 25B/ 841 Pvt.
Jas . Jenkins , KIA , R.D ) .
So as you can see there are two Jenkins in the updated paperwork at R.D .Hope this has been some help .
cheers 90th

PS. You didnt get the bible unless you were at R.D .

Just one question. The letter in-question, was it written by the Jenkins that is in the Grave section posted by John yesterday.

"The letter mentions the deaths of Sergeant Instructor of Musketry George Chambers who married Elizabeth, daughter of Isaac Lewis of Brecon, in January 1877 and her brother Gunner Thomas Lewis of Royal Artillery, who was involved in the fighting at Rorke’s Drift which took place some 12 hours after the disaster at Isandlwana. George Chambers’s name is remembered to this day on his father-in-law’s headstone in Brecon Cemetery and in the Regimental Museum where a coalport mug given to George and Elizabeth as a wedding present is on display.

David Jenkin’s letter suggests that he was one of the fortunate survivors of Isandlwana. However, only 10 men out of nearly 600 men of the regiment escaped and their handwritten accounts prepared, but not used, in the subsequent Court of Enquiry, are held in the regimental archives. There is no report from 295 Pte. David Jenkins of Defynnog. Furthermore, we know that David Jenkins was in G (Rainforth’s) Company 1/24th which was held in reserve at stores depot at Helpmekaar, some 20 miles from Isandlwana. The actual whereabouts of David Jenkins during the period on 22/23 January 1879 was not clear.

After 127 years, Mrs Gittoes was able to solve the mystery with tangible evidence – a Rorke’s Drift Testimonial Bible presented to each of the gallant defenders by the ladies of Durban. The name of the soldier is inscribed in the flyleaf of each bible. This bible containing David Jenkins’s name was identical to others held by the Regimental Museum; there was no doubt over its authenticity.

We knew of the possibility of two soldiers named “Jenkins” from 1/24th being at Rorke’s Drift and the various rolls were not able to shed light on the matter. A soldier named 841 Pte. James Jenkins was a patient at Rorke’s Drift but had been killed by the Zulus as they plundered through the hospital building and his name appears on the memorial at Rorke’s Drift; Colour Sergeant Bourne, the redoubtable senior NCO, at Rorke’s Drift, mentions 1083 Pte. M Jenkins but he was killed at Isandlwana. This prompted a search through the Regimental Archives and we were able to find a reference to Pte. David Jenkins 1/24th being at Rorke’s Drift in the handwritten ledger containing the records of the 1st Battalion. So with some confidence, we were able to add David Jenkins’s name to the roll of Rorke’s Drift defenders. Interestingly, in his letter David had quite naturally concentrated on telling his family of his lucky survival from Isandlwana when many local men had been killed – Rorke’s Drift on the other hand was not yet news as the announcement of the award of Victoria Crosses to the eleven defenders was published much later"

Martin Everett Curator of The Royal Regiment of Wales Museum, The Watton, Brecon. Write's

Source: Hanes News Letter.

"Interestingly, in his letter David had quite naturally concentrated on telling his family of his lucky survival from Isandlwana when many local men had been killed"

"Quite naturally concentrated"

No he was telling tales. That's all there is to it. ll seems a bit odd to me.

I am no expert, but apparently, far too large of a number of old soldiers claimed to have charged with the Light Brigade, attended the reunions etc.
Recently, on a flight home from the States, the wife told me that she was unfortunate enough to get seated next to some idiot who insisted on telling her that he had been in the SAS and had to suffer hours of his claimed stories and deeds as she tried to focus on her book on the flight home.
Have to go by the official rolls and evidence that we have I would suggest, until something more concrete comes to light. Open minded, it would be lovely to discover some new RD defenders, but at the moment, would have to go with Old Historian on this one.
Tasker224

He probably got a hero's welcome back home anyway. Just for being at the Battle Of Rorkes Drift.

The Forgotten Man

This may not be the story of a hero but it is certainly a story of great courage, fortitude and survival in the face of what must have seemed like insurmountable odds.

David Jenkins was a private in the British Army during the Zulu Wars. Ordered to look after prisoners at a small mission outpost, known as Rorke's Drift, he was left behind by his regiment who marched into Zulu territory and made camp in the shadow of a strangely shaped rock outcrop called Isandlwana.

There, on the morning of 22nd January, 1879, David's fellow men were surprised and massacred by the massed Zulu army. Only a handful of soldiers are said to have survived. Even two officers who rode off with the regimental colours were run down by Zulu warriors and killed.

David wrote home to reassure his family that he had survived that appalling day and his letter was published in 'The Merthyr Express' of Saturday 22nd March 1879 :

Dear Father
Just a few lines to let you know that I am one of the ten that escaped out of five companies. The remainder were cut to pieces, - in fact cut in bits - with those savages. About 15,000 of them came on the camp when the column was out. All in the camp were killed - 495 of our regiment and about 300 of different corps. Oh I never saw such a sight. Please pray to God to continue to save my life. There are only 240 men remaining in our regiment. So no more. I shall write again soon if alive.

Dear Father, please go personally or write a letter to Isaac Lewis and tell him that his son-in-law, Sgt. Chambers is killed.His son Thomas is alive but still in hospital with fever. He had a narrow escape. He crept on his hands and knees and came from the hospital to the fort through all the firing .Please give my love to all and write soon.
Your affectionate son.

David
P.S. I think we will go down to the colony to get refitted, as we have lost everything.

On the afternoon of 22nd January, the mission and hospital at Rorke's Drift was surrounded by over 4000 Zulu warriors. They attacked the besieged soldiers with almost incessant ferocity over a period of fourteen hours. Miraculously, the redcoats managed to repel wave after wave of their attackers who, stunned by their horrific losses, gradually withdrew.

Eleven Victoria Crosses were awarded for this famous conflict but, like many of the ranks, David Jenkins received only a standard Zulu Wars medal. His name was omitted from the official roll of honour and he remained unrecognised even by his own regimental museum as a defender of Rorke's Drift possibly because he had been a member of a different division of the Regiment to the other soldiers at the mission. Although he was introduced to King Edward VII on his royal visit to Swansea in 1904 and despite overwhelming evidence of his presence at Rorke's Drift , he became the forgotten man, forgotten by history and historians.

Forgotten, that is, until five years ago when one of David's descendants discovered a Bible which had been awarded only to those who had survived that bloody day and conclusive proof of his claim to be a Rorke's Drift Hero. David Jenkins died in 1912 and is buried in Cwmgelli Cemetery, Treboeth.... But his memory now lives on with his own special display in a cabinet at the South Wales Borderers' Museum in Brecon.

'If you would like to speculate on what David looked like at the battle, he was one of a handful of soldiers in 1879 to be asked to act as models for Lady Butler's famous painting The Defence of Rorke's Drift. Her depiction of the battle, a favourite of Queen Victoria's, now hangs in St. James' Palace in London.

The above information was kindly provided by Geoff Rees, Great Grandson of David Jenkins.

Source: Tanner-Arms

We have all this information, but not really an answer to why he made the letter sound at though he had survived Isandlwana.

Martin Everett Curator of The Royal Regiment of Wales Museum say's

"David had quite naturally concentrated on telling his family of his lucky survival from Isandlwana when many local men had been killed – Rorke’s Drift on the other hand was not yet news as the announcement of the award of Victoria Crosses to the eleven defenders was published much later"

Ok. I don't quite go with this, but if that was the case surly when the news of Rorkes Drift did surface much later, the question should have be asked how could Jenkins have been at Isandlwana & Rorkes Drift. And how did he know Sgt. Chambers had been killed. It would be interesting to know when this letter was actually sent and received by his parents. It was published on the 26th March 1879.

Why would he not write about being at the Battle of Rorkes Drift? 139 Soldiers against thousands of Zulu’s Much better story than surviving Isandlwana.

And Mr Everett states: So with some confidence, we were able to add David Jenkins’s name to the roll of Rorke’s Drift defenders.
Not total Confidence.

And this letter that was sent from someone claiming to be at Isandlwana.

Posted By CTSG Sat Oct 31, 2009

1415 Thomas Thomas of Ystalyfera to his Uncle and Aunt.

"I am very sorry to tell you that we see very hard times of it out here now. We are on the march all the time and we have not seen a bit of bread this last two months, only biscuits all the time and we are often on the road for two or three days at a stretch, that we don't get coffee or tea, only dry biscuit; it is an awful place for water. Another thing, we have to write with powder and water and I had to pay fourpence for this sheet of paper and envelope...
We had a very hard fight for about three hours at a place called Isandhlwana. The Zulus attacked our camp and as soon as we saw them coming, we struck the tents and formed square around the ammunition, and we kept them back for three hours. The General was not with us at the time; he was out somewhere and the colonel that was in command of us (as soon as he saw the Zulus retiring) ordered us to advance after them. We went about 300 yards and they were so many that they came in our rear and took the camp and everything that belonged to us; they came about us so thick that we could not handle our guns and then we knocked them down with the butt of the gun; the Zulus killed about 1841 of our fellows altogether but we ourselves killed some of the volunteers because they were running away and the colonel in command shot himself because he knew he had done wrong. He should not have put us to advance after them and leave the ammunition. However, we killed about 6000 that day. David Davies has been killed....
Thomas' statement that 'the colonel in command shot himself ' (referring probably to Durnford but possibly to Pulleine) is hard to credit; at the same time it is difficult to understand why he should have made such a statement had he not believed that such was the case."

Posted By 1879Graves Sun Nov 01, 2009
This article appeared in the North Wales Express, 18 April 1879. (Another newspaper artical)

1415 Thomas Thomas is listed on the Medal Roll for the 2nd Battalion 24th Regiment.

Posted By Mr G Sun Nov 01, 2009
This from Mr Julian Whybra.Posted on the RDVC. Author of “ England's Sons”

Quote:
"Thomas was not at Isandhlwana and his letter cannot be relied upon in any of its comments. To quote from my England's Sons: 2-24/1415 Pte. Thomas Thomas This 2/24th soldier came from Ystalyfera in Wales. A letter home to his uncle and aunt from Rorke’s Drift, dated 19th February 1879, is extant in both Welsh and English versions. They were published in Y Gwladgarwr, 18th March 1879; Y Genedl Gymreig, 24th April 1879; and in the North Wales Express, 18th April 1879. From the ambiguity of the content it could be interpreted that the writer participated in the battle of Isandhlwana and it has appeared in print as a letter from a bona fide survivor. In reality, Thomas was out with his battalion as a member of Chelmsford’s reconnaissance on the 22nd January. Thomas is either deliberately not telling the truth or, to be generous, his writing in the first person plural has been taken literally when what he actually intended to convey was the third person plural."

The High-lighted part at the bottom, Should be conveyed to Jenkins.

Bear with me on this.

"Dear Father, please go personally or write a letter to Isaac Lewis and tell him that his son-in-law, Sgt. Chambers is killed.His son Thomas is alive but still in hospital with fever".

Rorkes Drift Roll of Honour
Lewis, Thomas. Bombardier. 458 (Happy with this) This puts Jenkins at R.D

Rorkes Drift Roll of Honour
Jenkins, James. Private. 25B/841, killed in action 22 January 1879

Killed at Isandlwana (Northeast medals)
Jenkins, Jas. 841

Is it normal for two soldiers to have the same army number.

Just been confirmed by a reliable source, Jenkins letter was dated the 28th January 1879. So five days after the event.

Littlehand. Your Jenkins KIA Isandlwana was also in the 1st Battalion 24th Regiment.

Strange how the two Jenkins that were KIA. one at R.D and the other Isandlwana had the same Initials & Number.

P.S I cannot find any mentioned of Jenkins by other defenders..The Roll of honour on this forum only shows the Jenkins that was KIA. Be it at R.D or Isandlwana. Have we missed him off. Or was he not mentioned on Chards roll.

Trying hard to follow this

90th "His inclusion among the defenders SOLVES the riddle of ' Others ' having seen ' Jenkins ' both in the Hospital and on the wall ( Confusing this man with 25B/ 841 Pvt. Jas . Jenkins , KIA , R.D )"

Littlehand.

Quote :

Killed at Isandlwana (Northeast medals)
Jenkins, Jas. 841

So where was he KIlled R.D or Isandlwana.

I haven't been up this late for ages !!!!

Hi John .
It's difficult to put into words , please read my 1st Post slowly and it should make sense .
There are two ( 2 ) '' Jenkins '' at R.D . Pvt . Jas Jenkins 841 1 / 24 th KIA R.Drift . Medal with 1879 Clasp .
Pvt. D. Jenkins 295 1 / 24th Survived . Medal with clasp 77-78-79 .
( this man may have recieved two clasps viz 1877- 8 and 1879 . )
These stats are from the Medal Roll .

In all there are 5 '' Jenkins '' in the 1 / 24th , 2 were KIA Isandlwana , Pvt. W. Jenkins 1083 . Medal 79 clasp
Pvt . W. Jenkins 1767. Medal 79 clasp.

Another '' Jenkins '' this time 2 / 24th Pvt . W. Jenkins 1135 2 / 24th KIA Isandlwana Medal 77--8 - 9 Clasp .
As you can see .......... Confusing isnt it Dutchy ! So we have 3 '' W '' Jenkins KIA Isandwana .

cheers 90th.

Hi Littlehand .
I think the Northeast medal site hasnt updated its tables for those KIA at Isandlwana , because 841 Jenkins
was certainly Killed at R. Drift .
cheers 90th.

Quote :

I think the Northeast medal site hasnt updated its tables

I will e-mail the Northeast website and ask the question.

If the original letter was writen in Welsh, perhaps a crucial word has been mistranslated and the meaning misinterpreted.
The letter translation reads "escaped" Isandhlwana out of 5 companies. Martin Everett says "survived".
I am not sure that this honourable soldier is in fact claiming to have escaped the Battle, but has survived - unlike the rest of his company.
(A little like the vicar who disembarked in Ireland, missed the boat and escaped the rest of the Titanic's fateful voyage; this guy did not claim to have survived the sinking).
Tasker224

Quote :

90th Serg Wilson , Pvt's Payton , Desmond , 25B / 295 DAVID JENKINSand Roy 1 / 24th HAD BEEN SENT TO THE REAR WITH PRISONERS

90th

Smith -Dorrent makes reference to Zulu's being hung at R..D. Could this have been the prisoners in question, If yes why did Jenkins go to Isandlwana after leaving them at R.D.

Quote :

I am not sure that this honourable soldier is in fact claiming to have escaped the Battle, but has survived

But surly the letter clearly indicates Isandlwana.

We should put it down to Jenkins trying to impress the folks back home.

So basically he has been included as a Rorkes Drift defender based on his name being in a Bible. And yet on the original roll call he was missed off.

Is a list of names available of those who served in G Company that fought at Isandlwana.

If Jenkins wasn't on the original roll call, how and who decided to put him on there many years later.

I have spent all night looking at various Rorkes Drift Roll Calls. And the only Jenkins I can find is (Jenkins, James. Private. 25B/841, killed in action 22 January 1879)

So i don't see how he can be known as one of the Rorkes Drift defenders.

Quote :

Old H. If Jenkins wasn't on the original roll call, how and who decided to put him on there many years later.

Good Question. Maybe some people feel happy that the Bible is enought to say he was, but then there are some who think otherwise. That may asnwer why he has not been added to the offical Roll Call....

Snap!!! Littlehand. I to have been looking at various Roll Calls. Came across this on our own forum it the welcome section.
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Click on link. Then click on Roll Call.

Jenkins, David. Private 25B/295
Jenkins, James. Private. 25B/841, killed in action 22 January 1879

This is the only roll call that shows both Jenkins. Admin I believe you know Kris Wheatley, any chance you could drop her an e-mail, she might be able to cast some light on the matter.

Nice one Chard. Lets hope we can put this to bed.

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Hi ctsg.
It wasnt merely a case of David Jenkins name in a bible , it was the fact he was GIVEN THE BIBLE with his name inscribed
on the flyleaf . To recieve the bible you had to have taken part in the R.D defence , you werent just given one , that is
one of the reasons he is now on the 24th Regt's records as having been there . . In regard to the prisoners being
hung at R.D I dont know who was in control of that , but that happened as far as I'm aware after Isandlwana and R.D . I think
the prisoners Jenkins and the others had control of were taken to Helpmekaar or some other encampment back from R.D . Before
the battles took place .
Seeing as the original letter was in Welsch maybe something was lost in translation . He may only be referring to how lucky
he was to have survived by not being there in the first place ,He didnt speak of how he managed to get away and the mention of the hospital seems to point to R.D . I certainly dont think he went back to Isandlwana after dealing
with the prisoners as he more than likely wouldnt have survived .
cheers 90th .

90th But their doe's not seemed to be any mentioned of prisoners under escort anywhere apart from the letter you mention. And its not been established if they were Zulu Or British or colonial soldiers. With all the research that has been carried out on the Anglo Zulu War surly someone somewhere would have picked up on military documents that a prisoners under escort where sent back to the rear for whatever purpose. With that in mind Chard1879 makes reference to Smith -Dorrent and Zulu’s hung at R.D. I can find no mentioned of this by any of the defenders. Again this would have been recorded albeit out of revenge for those killed at Isandlwana.

Hi oldh.
There is a mention of zulus being hung after the battle but cant tell you where I read it , I'm pressed for time at the moment
I think its in '' Rorkes Drift By Those Who Where There '' I will check once I have time later today .
cheers 90th.

Hi all.
If I remember rightly I have posted the info before dealing with the hangings at R.D . But it was a while ago !!.
cheers 90th.

I think the evidence - a bible with his name in it - for D.Jenkins being a RD defender is flimsy, to be polite.
I'd go with the original roll calls.
For me at least, debate over.

In addition as chard points out,

"And Mr Everett states: So with some confidence, we were able to add David Jenkins’s name to the roll of Rorke’s Drift defenders.
Not total Confidence."

Martin Everett also mentions "we knew of the POSSIBILITY of there being two Jenkins' at RD" - this does not mean that there WERE. The source of the possibility was not stated. I would suggest the source of the possibilty came fron the fact there was a letter, in Welsh, published many years ago................

Debate over and out.

I have sent an e-mail. Will post reply when I have one.

Quote :

Not total Confidence

. Let's hope Admin receives an e-mail. Might get a reasonable answer to how this came about.

As anyone got a photo of one of these bibles. I have never heard of these until this topic was posted.

24th. I have look for one of theses Bibles, but no luck. Possibly in a museum somewhere.

Chard's 2nd extended report, c. 1880:

"...while I was intently watching to get a fair shot at a Zulu who appeared to be firing rather well, Private Jenkins 24th, saying 'look out, Sir,' gave my head a duck down just as a bullet whizzed over it. He had noticed a Zulu who was quite near in another direction taking deliberate aim at me. For all the man could have known, the shot might have been directed at himself..."

Reynolds account c. 1879:

"...the only men killed in the hospital were three, excluding the Kafir, [sic], under treatment for a compound fracture of the femur. Their names were Sergeant Maxfield, Private Jenkins, both unable to assist in their escape (being debilitated by fever), and Private Adams, who was well able to move about but could not be persuaded to leave his temporary refure in a small room, and face the danger of an attempt at escape to the laager..."

Well that confirms there were two Jenkins present at Rorkes Drift. The one with fever certainly would not have warned Chard...

Extensive research has been carried on Pte: Jenkins, which shows 259 Private Jenkins as being present at the Battle of Rorkes Drift. Hopefully this information will be available in the not so distant future.

Pitts bible flyleaf I got courtesy of SWB Museum, and the bible cover is shown on page 139 of Ian Knight's excellent book 'Nothing remains but to fight'
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So how many Jenkins appear on Chard's RD roll. Could he have forgotten to include 259 Jenkins?

Thanks for posting the photo of the Bible, starting to make sense now. The signature page is built in. I suppose all we can do, it wait for the research to be published.

Its a pity the bible wasn't issued to all the defenders, and to those that didn't make it, would have be a nice jester to the familey. Thanks for posting the photo Admin.

Hi Guys,

Sorry I’m getting to the discussion late but here is the Bible in question. The picture is "all rights reserved" so I didn't post it but here is the link.

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Regards, Jeff

Hi ctsg.
I may be wrong but I'm fairly certain the bible was issued to all the defenders of R.D who were lucky enough to have
survived . I dont think those who were killed had one issued to either themselves or their families . This was the main
reason or one of them why 259 Jenkins was added to the list of defenders . As I posted earlier he arrived back in the
U.K with his so called bible with him . It does seem Chard neglected to put him on his roll , this could have been done for many
reasons . Chard was an Engineer and looking at 1879 he certainly wouldnt have a close association with those not under his immediate command . This also explains the sightings of Jenkins in the hospital and Jenkins on the wall . As we all know now
there were two of them , one survived and one didnt .
cheers 90th.

Hi tasker 224.
I know its been sorted but in regard to '' Go with the original Roll's '' . Bear in mind that Bourne's roll wasnt created
till 50 yrs after the event , so mistakes are bound to have been made .
cheers 90th.

I very much look 4wd to seeing the evidence of this "extensive research" when it is made available - we all know ommissions and mistakes were and still are made - perhaps he was there at RD after all.
Let's hope the research is more substantial than a bible given by a well meaning bunch of ladies. (How would they have known that 259 had been there when Chard didn't?) Why is so much weight put on the existence of this bible - we all know mistakes are made.
I look 4wd to reading some real evidence, but at the moment...........I have yet to be convinced!

I'm with tasker on this one....

Quote :

...........I have yet to be convinced!