Admiral Sir James Startin, K.C.B., A.M

Startin entered the Navy in 1869, he made Captain in 1897, Commodore RNR and Admiral, 1915. He saw service in the Zulu War - medal and clasp, MiD - and in Egypt, 1882, when he was landed with the Naval Brigade - medal and clasp, Bronze Star - subsequently in Benin and the Boxer Rebellion. In the Great War he served on patrol vessels and Q Boats.

Time on shore from 1st January 1879 to 7th February 1879 (Tenedos)
Time on shore from 8th February 1879 to 17th March 1879 (Active)
Was present on the River Tugela; formed part of garrison of Fort Tenedos during February and March; was with the advance guard of the Eshowe Relief Column; present at Battle of Gingindhlovu. (Mentioned in Despatches; promoted.)
Time spent on shore from 18th March 1879 to 9th May 1879 (Boadicea)
Served in the war in the Brigade forming part of Crealock’s Division.

An explosion occurred on board H.M. Motor Launch 64, on the 10th June, 1918. Immediately after the explosion Commodore Startin proceeded alongside M.L. 64, the engine-room of which was still burning fiercely. On learning that the engineer was below, he sprang down the hatch without the slightest hesitation, and succeeded in recovering the body practically unaided. In view of the fact that the bulkhead between the engine-room and the forward tanks had been blown down by the force of the explosion, and that the fire was blazing upon the side and on the top of the forward tanks, which are composed of exceedingly thin metal and were consequently liable to burst at any moment, the action of Commodore Startin in entering the engine-room before the fire was subdued showed the utmost possible gallantry and disregard of personal safety. Had the engineer not been past human aid he would undoubtedly have owed his life entirely to the courage and promptitude of Commodore Startin.

Thanks Graves. Couldn't find much on Startin. Certainly looks like a real millitary man..

See: Pictorial catalogue of AZW Graves & Memorials

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10 June 1918 - Commodore Sir James STARTIN RNR, motor launch fire and explosion (above - sister launch ML.211 (AH))

Hi all - new to this forum and don't want to post info that you might find irrelevant.
Found you while googlling 'James Startin' as he an ancestor of my husbands.

Did join to give you his grave picture etc but once a member I can see you already have them.

I might have something of interest - but are you only interested in the Zulu War side of his life?

Also I have found another relative of his that served in the Zulu Wars but as a civilian doctor. Not sure if that is relevant.

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This is an image of a cigarette card I bought off ebay - one of a series of famous admirals!

Hi. welshbabe welcome to the forum. And thanks for posting the photo.
You say

Quote :

"but are you only interested in the Zulu War side of his life?"

We would be interested in his life before and after the Zulu War. We all like to know about their lives in general, you tend to find that one things always leads to another but either way its all interesting.

Welshbabe
Welcome to the forum and really interesting first post, any further info thats available please post.

Regards

Well I'll reply here and leave it to you who are more knowledgable about the forum to move it somewhere else if necessary or delete if irrelevant!

Quote :

from - http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/edward-walford/the-county-families-of-the-united-kingdom-or-ro yal-manual-of-the-titled-and-un-fla/page-338-the-county-families-of-the-united-kingdom-or-royal-manu al-of-the-titled-and-un-fla.shtml

e-book - Edward Walford.

The county families of the United Kingdom; or, Royal manual of the titled and untitled aristocracy of England, Wales, Scotland, and Ireland .. (Volume ed.59, yr.1919)
. (page 338 of 416)

STARTIN, Adm. Sir James, K.C.B.— Cr. 1917.

Third son of William Startin, Esq., of Hereford
Lodge, Brompton,who d. 1865, by Mary.whod. 1878,
only dau. of the late Robert Pate, Esq., of Wisbech,
Cambridgeshire ; b. 1855 ; m. 1891 Alice, 5th dau. of
the late Gilbert McMicking, Esq., of Miltonise, Wig-
townshire. Sir James Startin, who was educated at
Eastman'sR. Naval School and inH. M.S. "Britannia,"
is an Adm. ret., and an Officer of the Legion of
Honour; was A.D.C. to H.M. King Edward VII.
1906-7, and Rear-Adm. Channel and Home Fleets
1908-9 and, temp. Commodore K. Naval Reserve
1914-19. -Wyndlawn, Hayling Island, Hampshire ;
United Service Club, s.w.

From the Hayling Forum:-

The lifeboat (Charlie & Adrian) was launched 13th October 1910

Admiral Startin, who served on the Hayling Lifeboat Committee.
PROMPT REPLY TO SIGNALS OF DISTRESS. ADMIRAL ONBOARD.

Ten days later on the 13th the "Charlie and Adrian" was launched at 10:20 at night again, together with the Southsea, Bembridge, Littlehampton and Selsey lifeboats, when distress signals were reported off the Nab Lightship. The weather was rough with a north-easterly gale blowing, causing a heavy sea. Coxswain Miller was ill, so the Second Coxswain Charlie Cole was in charge of the lifeboat. As the lifeboat was being pulled out of the boathouse, Admiral Sir James Startin arrived. He had not long vacated his command of the Home Fleet, and this trip out in the lifeboat this time would be under rather different circumstances. He jumped into the boat and informed Charlie Cole that he wished to be included in the crew. The Coxswain had received instructions after the last time the Admiral had been out on a service, that it was not considered advisable that he should form one of the crew and that a younger man was to be taken. Charlie Cole explained to the Admiral that he had his crew, and that the Institution never allowed supernumerary members on service. Reluctantly Admiral Startin left the boat, which was pulled down the waters edge, and into the surf that was thundering on the shore. No one thought any more about the Admiral, but not to be out done, he had gone down into the sea, scantily dressed as he was, and waited until the boat was being launched from her carriage, and at a psychological moment, mounted one of the wheels, and jumped into the boat just as she was afloat, every crewman at the time employed at his respective duty. The lifeboat had a good launch, and the crew being soaked to the skin, as she entered the water in the teeth of the gale which was blowing. By the time the Admiral was discovered there was nothing more to be done than to accommodate him, as to turn the boat back would have entailed great delay. Charlie and his crew made for the Nab, which was reached at midnight, and the crew were informed that they were repeating the signals that had been fired by the Owers Lightship asking for assistance. Feeling that it would be impossible to reach the Owers Lightship before daylight, and knowing that the Selsey lifeboat had been launched, the "Charlie and Adrian", was turned round to return to the shore, but when about a mile from the boathouse the Nab was seen firing rockets again. The boat was put about, and the Nab was visited a second time. This time they were informed that a steamer was requiring assistance, being driven before the wind about ten miles south-west of the Nab. Knowing that it would be impossible to overtake the vessel, Charlie Cole, again turned the lifeboat for home returning at 6:00 in the morning having found no vessel. For all this time Admiral Startin only had on his pyjamas and slippers, except for an oilskin that one of the crew had given him. The steamer turned out to be the Naval oil fuel ship "Isla". She had lost her propeller when off the Nab, and signalled for assistance. She was blown before the gale, round the back of the Isle of Wight until off the Needles and was met by a tug from Portsmouth Dockyard and towed to safety.




Obituary:
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Painting by William Frederick Mitchell HMY Victoria and Albert, a 360 foot steamer launched in 1855, was a Royal Yacht of the Sovereign of the United Kingdom until 1900, owned and operated by the Royal Navy. She displaced 2,470 tons, and could make 15 knots on her paddles. There were 240 crew. Victoria and Albert II was scrapped in about 1904. Lieutenant James Startin was working on her when he married in 1891.

Wedding Report of 1891 - he recieved wedding gifts from Prince George of Wales - claret decanter, and Duke of Ebinburgh - pair silver candleabra.
There is a wonderful account of Startin's first London wedding in 1891 to Alice M'Micking.
James was serving in the Victoria and Albert, so they invited 26 sailors, who lined the aisle before the nuptials.
The bride was followed by four of Alice's Montagu nephews dressed as V&A sailors.
After that came four little girls from the Sailors' Orphans Home at Portsmouth.
The reception was at 42 Princes Garden, the London home of the bride's family and the honeymoon was at the Chateau d'Aix, Orleans, the seat of Henry Startin, James's brother.


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The Admiral's uncle (his mother's brother) was Robert Pate 1819-1895.
Robert Pate was in the 10th Hussars but was transported to Van Deimens Island in 1850 after attacking Queen Victoria with a partridge cane. This is all detailed on the Old Bailey website (July 8th, 1850 - Reference Number: t18500708-1300).

Robert died in 1895 and is buried at Beckenham Cemetery and Crematorium Beckenham Greater London and his gravestone can be viewed at findagrave.com.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=43505209

A distant cousin of Admiral Startins was James Godfrey Thrupp 1849-1913.

James Godfrey Thrupp was invoved in the Zulu Wars.
He was a civilian surgeon attached to the 24th regiment. He was the Dr Thrupp who picked up Colonel Durnford's watch from his body after the battle of Isandlwana and returned it to England. There is a book he co-wrote with Alfred Egmont Hake under the name JG Lefebre - a novel with some autobiographical bits on the zulu wars. One copy is annotated by 'the author JG Thrupp' stating that certain passages are eye-witness accounts.




from - http://www.victorianwars.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3811

James Godfrey Thrupp, Member of the Royal College of Surgeons (Eng) 1871
Date of registration with the General Council of Medical registration: 18 Sept 1872

In the UK Medical Register of 1878, Dr Thrupp's residence is given as 1 St George's Place, Hyde Park, London.
In the corresponding register of 1891 (next I'm able to access), his residence is 33 Curzon St, Mayfair
Then in 1896, Lyndhurst, Addlestone, Surrey
Then in 1904 & 1909, 97 Uxbridge Road, Ealing
He disappears from the medical registers by 1912

There's something in the 1904 register entry that says (St George's, Paris, Vienna, Milan). Where he studied/practiced?

Dr Thrupp was, I believe, a civilian surgeon in Natal, who volunteered for war service and was appointed as the RMO of 1st/24th. I know nothing about him prior to this. He was not only with Glyn's Column at the end of the war, but at the beginning too - he was at Isandlwana on the fateful day.

In the early hours of the morning, when Lord Chelmsford made the decision to divide his force, advancing with the 2nd/24th and leaving 1st/24th in camp, he also gave orders that no wagons were to be taken. Nobody relayed this part of his order to the Principal Medical Officer (PMO) Surgeon-Major Peter Shepherd, who decided that while he himself would stay in camp (hence 1st/24th taken care of), Dr Thrupp would go out with the Flying Column, taking two wheeled ambulances with him (contrary to the GOC's orders). He went with a handful of medics and drivers, would have tailed along behind the troops, struggled at the big dongas intersecting the Isandlwana plain,and by the time he caught up, whatever excitment there was on that side of the plain was just about over. By now concern was growing about what was going on behind them at the camp. He would have participated in the chilling return to Isandlwana that evening, slept somehwere on the battlefield, and would have been one of the last to arrive at Rorke's Drift the following morning, also of course a charnel house by this stage. He would have helped Surgeon James Reynolds (exhausted) with his surviving patients and the newly wounded, the majority of the B Coy men having cuts and grazes of one kind or another. After that...dunno, sorry.

There are two mentions of Dr Thrupp in General Orders during the Zulu War.
(See Local General Orders relating to the Anglo-Zulu War of 1879.)

No. 219, dated 10th December 1878, Times of Natal 13th December 1878.
7. Civil Surgeon Thrupp will take over medical charge of the 1-24th Regiment, in place of Civil Surgeon Hartley, reported sick.

District Order No. 9, dated 26th April 1879, Natal Mercury, 29th April 1879.
8. Civil Surgeon Thrupp will proceed on horseback to Ladysmith, where he is to report his arrival to the senior medical officer for duty.

Also wrote:
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Admiral Startin's son was Robert Arthur Startin (captain) 1894-1967.

Awarded the Albert Medal - The Times 10 May 1916
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Taking command of he Revenge:
28 july 1936 - The Times
Commander R A Startin OBE
Command of the REVENGE
With effect from today Commander the Hon J B Bruce is relinquishing command of the battleship REVENGE and is suceeded by Commander R A Startin O.B.E. A.M. Because of the scarcity of men the REVENGE, formally flagship of the Second-in-Command in the Mediterranean, was reduced to one-fifth ccomplement at Portsmouth in Feb last and has since been a commander's command.
Commander Startin has recently commanded the SALADIN as senior Officer of the local destroyer flotilla at Portsmouth.
He is familiar with the REVENGE for he was staff officer for operations with Vice-Admiral Sir Charles Forbes in the vessel from Oct 1934 to Jan 1936.
Commander Startin is the eldest son of Admiral Sir James Startin K.C.B. A.M. and served with distinction in command of coastal motor boats during the War and also in destroyers.

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Admiral Sir James Startin--50 Years Naval Service--For Private Circulation Only

welshbabe,

Welcome to the forum.

That is an interesting article on the lifeboat incident. I had not seen that before. It does seem like Admiral Startin knew no fear. He was always willing to risk his life to help others; this incident, and the one in 1918 with the Motor Launch fire. When a Midshipman, in 1876, he received a Royal Humane Society Bronze Medal for jumping overboard to save a seaman.

Petty Officer Tom

Isandula,

That is a hard book to find. Apparently not too many copies were printed. Do you have a copy?

Petty Officer Tom

I have had two copies over the years. Sadly I sold one copy to Maggs of London (just found out on the web that this copy has been sold) and the other one to a private Zulu War collector.

Isandula,

That's too bad. I was hoping to get a peak of his time served on HMS Tenedos, including the Zulu War experiences.

Petty Officer Tom

Have been trying to track down a copy of that book! Saw one on Amazon a while ago at about £150. I know a descendant around Hayling has one.

Was trying to get info from the library system but a very helpfu lady from the Hayling Island Forum got this reply from the naval library:

Quote :

"It’s undated but c. 1958 so still within copyright, and as it was privately printed and not published that’s even more of a problem. I think one chapter or 5% (whichever is less) is the maximum legal, which is not enough to be all that helpful (and even that much would have to be done by photography or the overhead scanner, since photocopying would cause too much damage). I’d recommend that ............ tries to obtain it through the inter-library loan system first: if that succeeds she will have the whole book to read. If that fails, we can look at this again: since we can’t legally copy the whole book and for conservation reasons would be reluctant to do so anyway, the question is what part of it would you choose? If there is some particular information that she is looking for, or some aspect of Startin’s career that is important, we might be able to pick out the most relevant pages."

She then kindly ordered it through the library scheme only to be told:
I afraid I am going to have to cancel the request below as we have been unable to get a loan copy of the book in the UK. Unfortunately there are no international locations for it either.

James Startin Wills Arthur (1881-1955), who wrote the book, was Admiral Startin's nephew. J S W Arthur was a colonial civil servant and worked in Penang, among other places.
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from http://community.webshots.com/user/oldpenang

There is another portrait of James Startin on the Imperial War Museum website but not sure if I'm allowed to copy it here.
Its at http://www.iwmcollections.org.uk/dbtw-wpd/exec/dbtwpub.dll?AC=GET_RECORD&XC=/dbtw-wpd/exec/dbtwpub.dll&BU=&TN=Uncat&SN=AUTO28080&SE=2217&RN=4&MR=25&TR=0&TX=1000&ES=0&CS=1&XP=&RF=allResults&EF=&DF=allDetails&RL=0&EL=0&DL=0&NP=1&ID=&MF=WPENGMSG.INI&MQ=&TI=0&DT=&ST=0&IR=190546&NR=0&NB=0&SV=0&BG=0&FG=0&QS=
IWM ART 1260
Admiral Sir James Startin, KCB, AM, RNR
PRODUCTION DATE: c. 1918
by Lavery, John Sir RA RSA

Harry James "Jimmy" Startin was Admiral Startin's grandson.

Son of Mr & Mrs Hal Startin, of Comox, Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada, and grandson of Adm. Sir James Startin, KCB, AM (1855-1948).
Jimmy was a Naval Cmmander and is service is given at http://www.unithistories.com/officers/RN_officersS3.html

welshbabe,

Here is another example of Admiral Startin's courage:

A PLUCKY ATTEMPT.

“While the gunboat Halcyon was recently on a steam trial off Plymouth, and running at the rate of seventeen knots per hour, a seaman named Collings fell overboard. Commander James Startin, who was in charge of the vessel, and standing on the fore bridge, rushed aft to the poop; and, although fully attired in his uniform, plunged into the sea, hoping to secure the man as he dropped astern. Unfortunately; however, Collings was not again seen, and after remaining in the water nearly a quarter of an hour, during which time a lifeboat and lifebelts had been lowered, Commander Startin was picked up. Commander Startin is already in the possession of three Royal Humane Society's awards for saving life, and the attention of the Society is to be called to his latest gallant effort.”
(Bay Of Plenty Times, Volume XXII, Issue 3154, 10 August 1894)

Petty Officer Tom

Thanks Petty Officer Tom. Don't think I'd seen that one.

Yes he certainly does sound'plucky' - someone I'd like to have had around in a disaster.

Was busy reading all the interesting posts on here last night - so much I didn't know!!

We learn everyday, its what makes the forum really good fun.

Regards

A signed photograph of James Startin.

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James Startin R.N.
John Young Collection

JY

Lovely image - and from a different angle to others I had.

Welshbabe,

Only too happy to oblige.

Regards,

JY

This just cropped up on google tonight - don't think hubby will let me spend £50 on a book   so if anyone is interested here is one on Admiral Startin's military life - don't think many were printed.
https://www.barnebys.co.uk/auctions/lot/474666425/admiral-sir-james-startin-k-c-b-a-m-arthur-j-s-f-maritime/

Another little picture of him
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Weekly Dispatch (London) - Sunday 21 August 1938

Photo courtesy of 90th

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