The Natal Mounted Police have almost been forgotten.

I'm interested to know, if the Natal Mounted Police were operational as a police force before the AZW or were they formed as part of the task force, solely to be used during the war. And what nationally were the men in this regiment.

hi 24th,

hope this helps, from ZULU-WAR, VOLUNTEERS, IRREGULARS,& AUXILIARIES by IAN CASTLE.

" the natal mtd police, a full time police force organised along military lines, they served in the LANGALIBALELE revolt of 1873 convinced the natal govt of the need for a force of mobile semi- policeman, the following year MAJ.J DARTNELL accepted an appointment as commandant to raise the N.M.P. A former soldier with the 86th regt in the indian mutiny, later served in 2/16 and 27th regts. before settling in natal, many of the recruits were from ENGLAND, as there were few who found the service attractive

Came across this. Thought it might be of interest.

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Is the actualy situated at Isandlwana.

The mounted police of Natal

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Good account of the Battle of Isandlwana. Remember just click on page to turn over,

hi pete,
Pulled this from the MTD POLICE OF NATAL , about ISANDLWANA . " Trumpeter STEVENS of the police was washed
off his horse , which swam across the river , the trumpeter owed his life to a native constable , who caught the animal
and bravely took it back , enabling Stevens to cross the river before the zulus attacked him ". Some of us know
that PVT WASSEL was awarded the V.C. at isandlwana for doing exactly the same thing , when he saved PVT WESTWOOD.
But they didnt award the V.C to Natives back in those days, when clearly one was justified !!.
cheers 90th.

Have alook at page 42. There is a nice photo of Isandlwana. Showing the carns not sure how old the photo is.
There are also some photo's of Rorkes Drift. And The spot where the Prince Imperial was killed.

90th From the book. And what did they get in return.

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hi john.
What did they get in return ? . NOTHING !!. There was no provision for medals to be awarded to native troops before isandlwana
and i dont think there was after the battle either, regarding the action of the NATIVE CONSTABLE , in his bravery
in saving TRUMPETER STEVENS at ISANDLWANA an award or something is clearly justified , as i said in a previous post
WASSELL got the V.C for doing exactly the same thing in the same battle , same day , same place .Enough said !!!.
And this is by no means an attack on WASSELL. He clearly deserved his V.C .
cheers 90th.

Hopefully someone will know.

Came across this discharge certificate. I can’t make out the name. I think this certificate is showing that this person was at the defence of Rorkes Drift. Any replies welcome.

The site from where this came doe’s not gives a name. But it doe's say his grandad. Who the certificate relates too, was wounded at RD. and his Granddad’s brother was wounded at Isandlwana.

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Any replies welcome.

Hi Little. I have looked at the R.D rol of honour and found three names. Well 2 really as one was KIA.

I think its Robert Green ?



Natal Mounted Police at RD

Green, Robert S. Trooper.
Hunter, Sydney H. Trooper., killed in action 22 January 1879
Lugg, Henry. Trooper.

It looks like Major Robert Green, So did he hold the rank of Major at discharge.

Yep. it says

Trooper Robert Green i.m.o.

"Reportedly Jenkins was also killed after being seized and stabbed; another Hospital patient killed was Trooper Hunter of the Natal Mounted Police. Among the hospital patients who escaped were a Corporal Mayer of the NNC; Bombardier Lewis of the Royal Artillery and Trooper Green of the Natal Mounted Police who was wounded in the thigh by a spent bullet."


Littlehand. You say his brother was wounded at isandlwana. Was he in the same regiment.

Thanks for the replies.

Hi CTSG It states that both were assigned to be scouts for the British army. They were both wounded – Who we now know to be Trooper Green at Rorke's Drift. His brother at Isandhlwana.

Some more if formation on Trooper Robert Green.

Robert Green ended up in Jagersfontein - attracted by the diamonds where he met and married the governess of the diamond mines General Manager's children.

Also attracted to the town by the diamonds was one Karl Vogt, son of a Hanoverian soldier who had migrated to the Eastern Cape with Baron Richard Carl Gustav Ludwig Wilhelm Julius von Stutterheim in 1857 as a Kaffrarian German - who, it was hoped, would do a better job of securing the Frontier than the 1820 settlers had.

When the Boer War started Robert Green was considered to be a burgher by the Free State Government and, as he had "military" experience, was appointed Veld-Kornet of the local Kommando.

However Robert Green considered himself a Brit and, because there was soon going to be a battle for the town, deserted. He mounted his horse, rode to the Orange river, crossed it, met up with the Seaforth Highlanders under Major King-Hall (later Lord Methuen), was commissioned into the regiment as a Lieutenant, about turned and was mentioned in garrison orders for his conduct during the battle for Jagersfontein.

To say that the Boer inhabitants were unimpressed is an understatement. They burned down Robert Green’s business and the family home. Robert Green’s wife became a refugee down the diamond mine with their son, who was just a few weeks old.

When the Brits realised that Robert Green was wanted dead or alive they transferred him out of the war zone to the Western Cape. He established a new business in Mossel Bay.

Quote :

Robert Green’s wife became a refugee down the diamond mine with their son, who was just a few weeks old.

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Robert's Son.

Thanks liitlehand. Iteresting story behind this fellow. I bet Trooper Green was as young has his son in the photo, when he to part in the defence of Rorke's Drift.

Trooper Green of the Natal Mounted Police who was wounded in the thigh by a spent bullet."

Am I correct in saying that a spent bullet, means its been fired.

Dave.

Correct. A round that has been fired.

I can see where your coming from Dave, how was he wounded by a spent bullet...

Mr.G

I wonder if there a photo or Trooper Greeen. or his Grave.

You got me thinking now. Just how was he wounded by a spent bullet...

You are misinterpreting the meaning of Spent Bullet. What do you think he sat on it? :lol!: The bullet was spent from the moment the firing pin engaged. So in layman’s terms he was shot. But it’s not clear from where the spent bullet came from. Could have been friendly fire.

Nice find littlehand. Always good to know what happen to the defenders after the Zulu War.

hi all.
Good post , I will go with Ricochet , for spent bullet.
cheers 90th.

Hi all.
A tad more info from ' Rorkes Drift by Those Who Were There ' by A.B. JONES and L. STEVENSON.
page 190.
Corp Mayer NNC, who had been wounded under the knee with an assegai at Sirayo"s Kraal, Bombardier Lewis R.A, whose
leg and thigh was much swollen from a wagon accident , and Tpr R.S. Green NMP, also a patient, all got out of the little end
window within the enclosure. The window being high up, and the zulus already within the room behind them, each man had a fall
in escaping, and had then to crawl ( none of them could walk )through the enemy's fire inside the retrenchment, whilst doing this
, Green was struck in the thigh with a spent bullet.
cheers 90th.

Robert Shedden St. John Green
Died 21st January 1925, Mossel Bay, Cape
Buried La Zaretto Cemetery, Mossel Bay

His brother Harold Green, served with the NMP during Anglo-Zulu Campaign.
(He died 25th April 1921)

This is my first post here and I must say how impressed I am by the erudition shown by this group!
My interest in the Zulu war stems from researching my step great grandfather, Acting Commissary Officer James Nathaniel Hamer, who was attached to Durnford’s column and luckily survived the battle at Isandlwana. I’ve recently discovered that my girlfriend’s great great uncle was Trooper Thicke of the NNP who sadly wasn’t so lucky.
I had assumed that the NNP troopers would have been a pretty wild bunch but then came across a cutting from the “Deaths” column of the London Times, Monday March 3rd, 1879, at the head of which are two notices of Isandlwana casualties. The first mentioned is Lieutenant the Hon. Standish Vereker, Natal Contingent, and previously of the Frontier Light Horse, third son of Viscount Gort, aged 24. This is followed by:

On the 22nd January last, at Isandula, South Africa, Sydney Claude Thicke, sixth dearly loved son of the late Charles James Thicke, aged 24.

This would suggest that Trooper Thicke came from a well-heeled background. Has anyone any information about the NNP Troopers at Isandlwana? Would Sydney Thicke have fallen at Durnford’s last stand? Would joining the NNP have been like joining the Foreign Legion, as a move to redemption after a Society disgrace, a la Beau Geste?
My girlfriend’s father is now in his 90th year and would be delighted to know more about his great uncle. I’ve seen a photograph of the NNP memorial at Isandlwana but not of the side on which Sydney’s name is written. Can anyone help us here?

hi amberwich.
I can tell you they were a full time police force organised along military lines , not sure exactly when they came into being .
But they did gain experience during the langalibalele Rebellion of 1873 , therefore convincing the Natal govt for such a force .
In 1874 Maj . J. Dartnell was appointed commandant , he being an ex- english army officer . Many of the recruits joined from
England , as their were few who found the service attractive in Natal. Approx 100 crossed into zululand under Inspector Mansell.
There was an attempt to induce new members in February after Isandlwana , but this failed to attract any response . 34 were left
at Isandlwana in which 25 were killed , 3 were at Rorkes Drift , 1 was killed . The rest were out with Chelmsford . After the column withdrew from zululand 10 of them remained at R.D for patrol work , 20 escorted Chelmsford to Ladysmith , the rest rode to Helpmekaar with the volunteers . My guess is those that were killed at Isandlwana more than likely died with or near Durnford
at his last stand on the nek. Some of this info is from " Zulu War - Volunteers , Irregulars & Auxiliaries by Ian Castle
hope this helps .
cheers 90th.

Amberwitch here is the full text version of the "The mounted police of Natal" I have taken a small extract from the book that includes Trooper Thicke. There could be more on him, but time is not on my side at the moment. Hope it helps. Click on other formats then click on book or you can read as plain text.

"The members of the force who were killed at Isandhlwana were : Corporal Lally, Lance-Corporal Campbell, and Troopers Banger, Berry, Blakeman, Capps, J. Clarke, Daniells, Dorey, Eason, Fletcher, Lloyd, McRae, Meares, Niel, Pearse, Parsons; Pollard, Pleydell, F. Secretan, Siddall, Stimson, Thicke, C. White, and Winkle." Page 61


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hi Amberwitch.
Not sure if you want this , but here goes . Natal Mtd Police survivors of Isandlwana .
LCE - CORP Robert Napier Eaton , Troopers G.Collier , David Doig , W.V Dorehill , Wm Hayes , Robert Jas Montague Kincade ,
R. Shannon , Chas Montague Fitzroy Sparks. There were 3 members of Natal Mtd Police at Rorkes Drift all admitted to hospital.
Troopers Henry Lugg , Robert S Green ( slightly wounded during the battle by a spent bullet ) and Sydney . H . Hunter who
was assegaied and duly died as he was leaving the hospital. This info from " Englands Sons " by Julian Whybra .
cheers 90th.

Many thanks for the information! Holt's book about the NMP has proved invaluable. In his preface to the book Dartnell, now a Major General, explains why a middle class lad like Sydney Thicke would be a Trooper in the NMP:

Later on I got the Government to consent to all promotions
in the corps being made through the ranks, in order
to avoid any undue political influence being brought
to bear in the appointment of officers ; I also wanted
to induce a good class of men to enlist in the force by
the prospect of promotion, and I achieved my object,
for after a few years about a third of the men were
gentlemen. Some of them were University men, and
there were boys from nearly every public school in
England.

That public school ethos certainly seems to have had consequences on the battlefield. A Trooper of the time, W. J. Clarke, who later, as Colonel Clarke was Commissioner of the NMP, was involved in the war though thankfully not at Isandlwana during the battle. His diary, kept from 1878 onwards gave Holt a lot of material for his book. Holt writes of the last moments with Durnford:

So sharp and terrible had been the onslaught that
the police who survived were unable to say much about
the last scenes. They had been sent out with all the
mounted men to hold the main Zulu army in check,
which they did until their ammunition was exhausted.
Messengers galloped back frantically for more cart-
ridges, but did not return, so the whole body retired.
It was then learnt that the messengers had found
the cartridges, tightly screwed up in boxes, and it
was impossible to get at them....

At the moment the mounted men fell back to
the camp the right horn of the impi appeared on the
nek, closing the road to Rorke's Drift. Even then,
had the troops been concentrated, and ammunition
available, it is possible that the position might have
been held, but the infantry were split up, and it was
too late to move away.

As the final rush came, Colonel Durnford clearly
saw that death was inevitable for nearly every one.

' ' Get away as best you can , " he shouted to the police
and volunteers near, but very few heard or obeyed him.

It seems that most stood firm:

Most of the fallen men were mutilated, but with
few exceptions the members of the police had been
killed with one or two stabs... .

In the numerous descriptions of the battlefield
very little mention is made of the fact that the police
shared with an equal number of volunteers the
honour of having made the last stand on the nek of
the hill. At the crest where the dead men were
lying thick, a large proportion of them were in the
uniform of the Natal Mounted Police. In a patch
of long grass, near the right flank of the camp, lay
Colonel Durnford's body, a central figure of a knot
of brave men who had fought it out around their
chief to the bitter end.

Around him lay 14 carbineers and 21 of the
police. Clearly they had rallied round the Colonel
in a last despairing attempt to cover the flank of the
camp, and had stood fast from choice when they
might have essayed to fly for their horses, which were
close by at the picket line.

Trooper Clarke arrived with Chelmsford after the battle. I would think that the remark about the lack of mutilation of the bodies of the NMP would be first hand knowledge. Presumably Clarke and other Police Officers would have recognised the bodies of their comrades. Would this mean they have named markers on the battlefield?

Amberwitch. I have been looking during my travels across the net. If i find further information, I will post. Glad you found some information of use.

hi amberwitch.
Good post , there is another reason why Clarke didnt mention any mutilations as he may in fact wanted to spare the family
members the terrible thoughts of their loved ones laying ripped open and brained on the battlefield . Or as he said they
may not have been mutilated , I find that hard to believe as they were the last to die and the blood lust of the zulus would
have been in a frenzied state as they did loose many men in taking them out . I cant imagine it being a civil end .
cheers 90th.

Could this be the same man.

"trooper named Parsons, in attempting to load his revolver, accidentally discharged the weapon. His horse shied and he fell off. As a reward he was sent back to camp in disgrace, the incident causing a good deal of merriment. Parsons was killed during the attack on the camp the next day"

Source: The mounted police of Natal

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Page 54

I would think he's the one, as he was killed in the camp at Isandlwana the following day.

Mr G.

Name of memorial: Lloyd Memorial
Place: St. Patrick’s Church
Address and map reference: Church Square, Monaghan Town, Co. Monaghan.
Position:. West wall of north gallery.
Description and dimensions: White marble monument of a battlefield scene, flanked by figures of a soldier and Zulu warriors, above a tablet with inscription. Height appx. 200cms, width 166cms.
.
Text:

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Does anyone have a photograph? Perhaps another mission for the Keynsham Light Horse!

hi
go to [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] go to wars then zulu and the Lloyd memorial is there.
It was one we missed on our visits to Ireland.
Rai
Keynshamlighthorse

Many thanks for the link. a really impressive memorial! Some questions arise:

What does the central image represent? Are the British depicted as NMP?

LLoyd resigned his commission in the 47th, 23rd January 1878. Spooky to think he would be dead just a day short of a year later. I wonder how he came to be a Trooper in the NMP, given his very privileged background? Troopers Sydney Thicke, Walter Stimson, J. W. Pleydell, Francis Secrertan , Arthur Parsons and Arthur Pollard were all from middle class families and all died with Durnford at the last stand.

John

That was a fascinating read - thank you.

My Pleasure Cisco. It amazing what you come across when surfing.

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Major A. Prendergast, Natal Police, Late Lonsdale’s Horse South Africa 1877-79, one clasp, 1879 (Lieut: A. Prendergast. Lonsdales. Horse); Cape of Good Hope
General Service 1880-97, one clasp, Basutoland (Cpl. A. Prendergast. Nat. M. Pce), engraved in upright serif capitals; Queen’s South Africa 1899-1902, one clasp, Natal
(Inspector A. Prendergast. Natal Police.); Natal 1906, with clasp (Major A. Prendergast, Natal Police.), engraved in running script, generally very fine or better , with copied
research giving insights into Prendergast’s assignments with he Natal Police.

Major Alfred Prendergast, J.P. (1855-1930); born Thurles,Ireland; served as Lieutenant Lonsdale’s Horse during both the Zulu War; enlisted in the Natal Mounted Police, 10.8.1879, and served with them during the First Boer War, 1881; advanced Sergeant, 1883; Sub-Inspector 1894; Inspector 1897; advanced Major and J.P. for the Magistrate Division of Pietermaritzburg; he died residing in Eighth Avenue, Durban. PROVENANCE:

Source: Spink February 1982

I'm looking for some clear close up pictures of the helmet plates (Zulu War) for the following :

Natal Mounted Police
Newcastle Mounted Rifles
Durban Mounted Rifles
British Marines


I also have a question : In Zulu Dawn the sergeant in the Natal Carbineers wears a black helmet, is this right? I can find no pictures of any NC in black helmets.

Thanks for any help

SirDCC. Came Across this. So I'm assuming this would have been the helmit plate of the Natal Mounted Police
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This is a photo of the kit of the NMP. (Notice no helmit plate so now i'm not sure)
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hi SirDCC.
I cant tell you where to find close up's of the Helmet plates , but can tell you their is no evidence the Newcastle Mtd Rifles
had a Helmet Badge . The NMP had a white helmet with a dark band and brass spike also a brass badge formed by the monogram
' NMP ' this was also worn on the black pillbox undress cap . The Natal Carbineers wore a white helmet with white metal fittings
of spike and badge , a blue pillbox cap with a white brow band replaced this when off duty . Durban Mtd Rifles wore a white helmet
with white metal spike and badge completed the campaign uniform , the badge being an eight - pointed star with the monogram
' DMR ' . This from .... ZULU WAR - VOLUNTEERS , IRREGULARS & AUXILIARIES by Ian Castle .
This also has colour plates which show the corps you are interested in , hope this helps.
Not sure about the Marines badge , try googling it or some other search engine should help.
cheers 90th.

Thanks very much both & 90th I do have the book you mentioned .
With most regiments removing their helmet plates it makes things alot easier for me, just seems most of the volunteers had them.
I'll show you what I'm up to and you'll see why I need clear pictures.
You may or may not know that there is a mod come out (beta) for the pc game Napoleon Total War covering the Zulu War.
It's still very much in the early stages but we do have a 24th and zulu's.

Now that I can get my hands on the files with the models & textures I can re-texture to my own likeing (making new regiments useing the 24th model)

Like this :
NC
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60th
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91st
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Natal Mounted Police: Very dark grey wollen cord tunic and trousers, black facings, brown boots, white sunhelmet with spike and brass metal 'NMP' helmet plate. Mounted rifles.

Newcastle Mounted Rifles: . Dark Green tunics and tbreeches faced/piped black. White sunhelmets with 'NMR' silver metal plate and spike. Black boots. Brown leather Bandoliers. Officers carried swords.

hi SirDCC.
Very impressive .
cheers 90th.

Good use of Poetic Licence.
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Not In Copy Right.

The quality of recruits in the Natal Mounted Police varied. One of the first men to join in 1874 was my great grandfather, Albert Elkington (Service No. 18), and he was certainly not high-born and privileged. By contrast, the following extract from the autobiography of Sir Percival Marling VC is worth repeating:

"We got to Mooi River [on 5th January 1881] .... There was a court-martial sitting on a Trooper of the Natal Mounted Police. I forget what his offence was, but the sergeant of the escort was an Old Harrovian, one of the witnesses had been at Eton, the President of the court-martial had been at Charterhouse, and the prisoner had been, I think, at Westminster, and the orderly to the court at Winchester."

Brett