Latest topics | » Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Today at 6:37 pm by Tig Van Milcroft » Dr. A. Ralph BusbySun Nov 17, 2024 11:25 pm by Julian Whybra » Lieutenant M.G. Wales, 1st Natal Native ContingentSat Nov 16, 2024 12:32 pm by Matthew Turl » Colonel Edward William Bray, 2nd/4th Regt.Fri Nov 15, 2024 9:55 pm by Julian Whybra » Royal Marine Light Infantry, ChathamThu Nov 14, 2024 7:57 pm by Petty Officer Tom » H.M.S. ForesterThu Nov 14, 2024 4:07 pm by johnex » Samuel PoppleWed Nov 13, 2024 8:43 am by STEPHEN JAMES » Studies in the Zulu War volume VI now availableSat Nov 09, 2024 6:38 pm by Julian Whybra » Colonel Charles Knight PearsonFri Nov 08, 2024 5:56 pm by LincolnJDH » Grave of Henry SpaldingThu Nov 07, 2024 8:10 pm by 1879graves » John West at KambulaThu Nov 07, 2024 5:25 pm by MKalny15 » Private Frederick Evans 2/24thSun Nov 03, 2024 8:12 pm by Dash » How to find medal entitlement CokerSun Nov 03, 2024 10:51 am by Kev T » Isandlwana Casualty - McCathie/McCarthySat Nov 02, 2024 1:40 pm by Julian Whybra » William Jones CommentFri Nov 01, 2024 6:07 pm by Eddie » Brother of Lt YoungFri Nov 01, 2024 5:13 pm by Eddie » Frederick Marsh - HMS TenedosFri Nov 01, 2024 9:48 am by lydenburg » Mr Spiers KIA iSandlwana ?Fri Nov 01, 2024 7:50 am by Julian Whybra » Isandhlwana unaccounted for casualtiesFri Nov 01, 2024 7:48 am by Julian Whybra » Thrupps report to Surgeon General Wolfies Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:32 pm by Julian Whybra » Absence of Vereker from Snook's BookFri Oct 25, 2024 10:59 pm by Julian Whybra » Another Actor related to the Degacher-Hitchcock familyMon Oct 21, 2024 1:07 pm by Stefaan » No. 799 George Williams and his son-in-law No. 243 Thomas NewmanSat Oct 19, 2024 12:36 pm by Dash » Alphonse de Neuville- Painting the Defence of Rorke's DriftFri Oct 18, 2024 8:34 am by Stefaan » Studies in the Zulu War volumesWed Oct 16, 2024 3:26 pm by Julian Whybra » Martini Henry carbine IC1 markingsMon Oct 14, 2024 10:48 pm by Parkerbloggs » James Conner 1879 claspMon Oct 14, 2024 7:12 pm by Kenny » 80th REG of Foot (Staffords)Sun Oct 13, 2024 9:07 pm by shadeswolf » Frontier Light Horse uniformSun Oct 13, 2024 8:12 pm by Schlaumeier » Gelsthorpe, G. 1374 Private 1/24th / Scott, Sidney W. 521 Private 1/24thSun Oct 13, 2024 1:00 pm by Dash » A Bullet BibleSat Oct 12, 2024 8:33 am by Julian Whybra » Brothers SearsFri Oct 11, 2024 7:17 pm by Eddie » Zulu War Medal MHS TamarFri Oct 11, 2024 3:48 pm by philip c » Ford Park Cemetery, Plymouth.Tue Oct 08, 2024 4:15 pm by rai » Shipping - transport in the AZWSun Oct 06, 2024 10:47 pm by Bill8183 |
November 2024 | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri | Sat | Sun |
---|
| | | | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | | Calendar |
|
Top posting users this month | |
New topics | » Dr. A. Ralph BusbySat Nov 16, 2024 11:36 am by Julian Whybra » Colonel Edward William Bray, 2nd/4th Regt.Wed Nov 13, 2024 8:49 pm by John Young » Samuel PoppleTue Nov 12, 2024 3:36 pm by STEPHEN JAMES » Colonel Charles Knight PearsonFri Nov 08, 2024 5:56 pm by LincolnJDH » John West at KambulaMon Nov 04, 2024 11:54 pm by MKalny15 » How to find medal entitlement CokerFri Nov 01, 2024 9:32 am by Kev T » Frederick Marsh - HMS TenedosThu Oct 31, 2024 1:42 pm by lydenburg » Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Mon Oct 28, 2024 8:18 am by SRB1965 » Thrupps report to Surgeon General Wolfies Sun Oct 27, 2024 11:32 am by SRB1965 |
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. |
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address.
Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.
If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.
We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes.
There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site.
The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum.
The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. |
Fair Use Notice | Fair use notice.
This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner.
We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes.
We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website.
If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution. |
|
| Lord Chelmsford's troops were forced to bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana | |
|
+724th Frank Allewell ciscokid John 90th Chelmsfordthescapegoat littlehand 11 posters | Author | Message |
---|
littlehand
Posts : 7076 Join date : 2009-04-24 Age : 56 Location : Down South.
| Subject: Lord Chelmsford's troops were forced to bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:31 pm | |
| Can anyone tell me why was Lord Chelmsford's troops were forced to bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana. It is said he wanted to spare him men the awful sight that awaited them, did he forget that day follows night, so they would have still seen the ghastly sights that awaited them in the morning. And why he did Chelmsford bother to go back at all? He could have quite easily waited the night out in a defensive position near Isandlwana. Not on it. My last thought. Why go back to a place where you knew it was impossible to fortify. Chelmsford himself said it would take to long laager, and impossible to entrench. |
| | | Chelmsfordthescapegoat
Posts : 2593 Join date : 2009-04-24
| Subject: Re: Lord Chelmsford's troops were forced to bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:47 pm | |
| Littlehand I think you have got mixed up.
Chelmsford column arrived at Isandlwana at night due to the distance. Chelmsford did not plan to arrive at night to spare his men for seeing the carnage.
However he did raise his troops before dawn to spare them the full horror of the scene. Nevertheless, many of the troops woke in the morning with the appearance of the slain injured, covered in the blood, entrails and brains of the dead. |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10909 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: chelmsford"s return Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:36 am | |
| hi mlittlehand.
This is from zulu war journal by henry (CHARLIE) harford, edited by Daphne Child. " By the time the scouts and reconnoitring parties who had been recalled, and other units, had assembled at the rendevous it was nearly 4pm, and before being formed up for the attack the Gen briefly addressesd the troops, telling them the camp had been TAKEN and saying that he relied on us to re-take it, we then marched off to isandlwana. The column halted about a mile from camp and saw a large body of zulus disappearing over a hill to the right of it, looking like an enormous mass of ants or swarm of bees, so we halted a few minutes and sent a few shells into them. We saw every shell burst amongst them, but the mass was so dense that whatever gaps were caused, was instantly filled, so it was impossible to see what damage had been done, anyone who has handled a swarm of bees would see the simile. |
| | | John
Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 62 Location : UK
| Subject: Re: Lord Chelmsford's troops were forced to bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:48 pm | |
| Littlehand I think Chelmsford’s nightmare was that the Zulus would march into Natal. In the distance the British could see Rorke’s Drift burning. From that Chelmsford knew that the Zulus had crossed the Tugela. And remember that saying (Where fools rush in) Chelmsford was in no position to fight. The ammunition supplies were left at Isandlwana. Chelmsford colour had limited supplies. When the troops were making their way to Rorke’s Drift The following Morning, they met with the Zulus that had fought at Rorke’s Drift, even then nether side wanted to fight. Except one young Zulu of course, but he lost. |
| | | ciscokid
Posts : 187 Join date : 2010-02-04
| Subject: Re: Lord Chelmsford's troops were forced to bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:05 pm | |
| - John wrote:
- Except one young Zulu of course, but he lost.
Hi John Can you elaborate on this please? Many thanks |
| | | littlehand
Posts : 7076 Join date : 2009-04-24 Age : 56 Location : Down South.
| Subject: Re: Lord Chelmsford's troops were forced to bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:16 pm | |
| Hi Ciscokid well to the forum.
I believe John is talking about the young Zulu that rushed at Chelmsford Column as it was advancing towards Rorkes Drift and was shot. He was the only one to make the charge, as the others were too tired and hungry to continue the fight. But then again so were those in the British column. |
| | | ciscokid
Posts : 187 Join date : 2010-02-04
| Subject: Re: Lord Chelmsford's troops were forced to bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:26 pm | |
| Thank you very much for the reply.
Do you have any links to this info?? |
| | | littlehand
Posts : 7076 Join date : 2009-04-24 Age : 56 Location : Down South.
| Subject: Re: Lord Chelmsford's troops were forced to bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:04 pm | |
| Leave it with, It could be in one of Ian Knight's book. Hopefully someone might find it before me. |
| | | Chelmsfordthescapegoat
Posts : 2593 Join date : 2009-04-24
| Subject: Re: Lord Chelmsford's troops were forced to bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:15 am | |
| I have seen this somewhere. Something about a young Zulu got all excited, and charged at the British but was shot, The other Zulu's just carried on walking away. |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10909 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: lord chelmsford bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:34 am | |
| hi all. Had a quick look through books by Laband , Norris - newman , Gonzalez and Harfords journal couldnt find anything on the lone zulu incident , seems like something that might be found in F. E mery"s work dealing with letters from those involved . Like looking for a needle in a haystack :) . cheers 90th. |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Lord Chelmsford's troops were forced to bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:24 am | |
| One story that was mentioned about the troops and the impi passing each other was that the Zulus thought Chelmsfords men were ghosts of the dead from the battlefield going back home. Probably, like the story of the lone Zulu boy, and I suppose Ivor emmanuel singing, urban legend.
regards |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10909 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: lord chelmsford bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:16 pm | |
| hi springbok9. I have read the story about the zulus thinking C"fords men were ghosts in a few books. cheers 90th. |
| | | ciscokid
Posts : 187 Join date : 2010-02-04
| Subject: Re: Lord Chelmsford's troops were forced to bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:55 pm | |
| Thanks all for the responses.
If anyone can find a link to this please let me know - I was under the impression that the uThulwana, iNdlondlo and uDloko were all 40 plus. |
| | | 24th
Posts : 1862 Join date : 2009-03-25
| Subject: Re: Lord Chelmsford's troops were forced to bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:43 pm | |
| I'm sure its in one of the Zulu War books by Bancroft. I will have a look tomorrow. By the way welcome to the forum. |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Lord Chelmsford's troops were forced to bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:07 am | |
| Eventually found it Lt Maxwell Suddenly from the enemy on the ridge there sprang a young warrior to the front, who by his actions and speech was endeavouring to urgr the others to attack. Failing in which, he madly rushed down the hillside towards the centre of the column, and was shot dead at about 30 yards distance, not one having followed or even risen from their squatting position. In my opinion had we had sufficient ammunition we could have made great havoc amongst them in their tired and disorganised state. |
| | | ciscokid
Posts : 187 Join date : 2010-02-04
| Subject: Re: Lord Chelmsford's troops were forced to bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:07 pm | |
| |
| | | ADMIN
Posts : 4358 Join date : 2008-11-01 Age : 65 Location : KENT
| Subject: Re: Lord Chelmsford's troops were forced to bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:29 pm | |
| Nice one Springbok. It was bothering me, as I had read it somewhere. |
| | | John
Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 62 Location : UK
| Subject: Re: Lord Chelmsford's troops were forced to bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:50 pm | |
| Springbok9. I echo Admin on that. Where did you find it. |
| | | ciscokid
Posts : 187 Join date : 2010-02-04
| Subject: Re: Lord Chelmsford's troops were forced to bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:58 pm | |
| John - what company produces the model in you avatar?
cheers |
| | | John
Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 62 Location : UK
| Subject: Re: Lord Chelmsford's troops were forced to bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:08 pm | |
| Sorry Cisco. I have only just seen your question. Here the link.. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] |
| | | sas1
Posts : 627 Join date : 2009-01-20 Age : 46
| Subject: Re: Lord Chelmsford's troops were forced to bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:11 pm | |
| Thanks for that John. I'm now the flying Zulu.
sas1 |
| | | John
Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 62 Location : UK
| Subject: Re: Lord Chelmsford's troops were forced to bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:13 pm | |
| No problem. I was thinking about having that one. But changed me mind. Looks Good. |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Lord Chelmsford's troops were forced to bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:31 am | |
| Hi John It was tucked away in Ian Knights ' Isandlawana'. I was actually searching for references to the roll call of Chelmsfords Col at RD.
Regards |
| | | 24th
Posts : 1862 Join date : 2009-03-25
| Subject: Re: Lord Chelmsford's troops were forced to bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:58 pm | |
| I understand that one of the reasons it took so long to bury some of the dead at Isandlwana i'm talking about those being the men of the 2nd Battalion, 24th 2nd Warwickshire regiment, it because the 2nd 24th wanted the honour of burying their own dead comrades. I take it this was sanctioned by Chelmsford and the 24th were allowed to bury their dead. Were any Soldiers of the 2nd 24th that fought at Rorke’s Drift permitted this honour bearing in-mind they fought their battle on the same day, as Isandlwana and many of them knew the ones that had died. |
| | | old historian2
Posts : 1093 Join date : 2009-01-14 Location : East London
| Subject: Re: Lord Chelmsford's troops were forced to bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:22 pm | |
| Hi 24th.
I think the men of the 2nd/ 24th who fought at Rorke's Drift, were long gone by the time the dead were buried. There wasn't much left of the regiment after Isandlwana, Members of B company were reallocated into different companies and sent to a range of different places. So to answer you question " No i don't think they did, but would have if they had the choice. |
| | | impi
Posts : 2308 Join date : 2010-07-02 Age : 44
| Subject: Re: Lord Chelmsford's troops were forced to bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:57 pm | |
| "Why did not Lord Chelmsford, immediately on his return, make a counter-attack on the enemy." First of all he had to wait for Colonel Glyn and the main body to come up to him. Meanwhile darkness had come on. When Glyn arrived he did advance with his troops formed up for action, and with the intention of re-taking the camp, which he had every reason to suppose was occupied by the enemy. The event proved they had abandoned it. Was not this a good reason for striking a blow? Let the facts of the case be well borne in mind. Lord Chelmsford knew that there was a large force in his rear; the force that had sacked the camp was supposed, and reasonably enough, to be on the right flank. In front were the bright watchfires of another force, and the blazing hospital at Rorke's Drift, which, together with Helpmakaar, there was every ground to believe had been captured and looted by the foe; in a word, his force was surrounded. The men had only fifty rounds of ammunition apiece; they had been twenty-four hours without food; they were physically exhausted by eighteen hours' continuous marching, and no less morally by the loss of their camp; their probabilities of escape were distant. How could a general lead troops in such a condition against a foe flushed and elated with spoil and recent victory?" |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Lord Chelmsford's troops were forced to bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:38 am | |
| Answer! he could not! thats why he got the h..k out of there! and why, he never commanded in the field again! |
| | | John
Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 62 Location : UK
| Subject: Re: Lord Chelmsford's troops were forced to bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:41 am | |
| - impi wrote:
- "Why did not Lord Chelmsford, immediately on his return, make a counter-attack on the enemy." First of all he had to wait for Colonel Glyn and the main body to come up to him. Meanwhile darkness had come on. When Glyn arrived he did advance with his troops formed up for action, and with the intention of re-taking the camp, which he had every reason to suppose was occupied by the enemy. The event proved they had abandoned it. Was not this a good reason for striking a blow? Let the facts of the case be well borne in mind. Lord Chelmsford knew that there was a large force in his rear; the force that had sacked the camp was supposed, and reasonably enough, to be on the right flank. In front were the bright watchfires of another force, and the blazing hospital at Rorke's Drift, which, together with Helpmakaar, there was every ground to believe had been captured and looted by the foe; in a word, his force was surrounded. The men had only fifty rounds of ammunition apiece; they had been twenty-four hours without food; they were physically exhausted by eighteen hours' continuous marching, and no less morally by the loss of their camp; their probabilities of escape were distant. How could a general lead troops in such a condition against a foe flushed and elated with spoil and recent victory?"
I think there are some very valid points. What's more it makes sense! |
| | | | Lord Chelmsford's troops were forced to bivouac amongst the dead at Isandlwana | |
|
Similar topics | |
|
| Permissions in this forum: | You cannot reply to topics in this forum
| |
| |
| |