Adding to the Library

Hi Steve, Well, you would think that anyone doing an history of a regiment would at least do some research, especially a well educated man who went to an Oxford college. He must have at least done some research on the matter, and would (or should) have known that the swb did not exist in 1689, nor did it exist in 1879 during the AZW, and that it only came into existance 2 years after the AZW in 1881. He must have also known that all line numbers were abolished and that new names were given to the new regiments that were created in 1881. He must have also known that the title that the pre 1881 regiment held the longest in its entire history (best part of 100 years), was the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment, and that most of its battle honours were won under this title. He must have also known that the line numbers had ended with the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment in 1881, yet he chose to give the swb the line number 24th foot, but he must have known that the swb were never the 24th foot, they were just the swb (hence the swb on the epaulettes and not the line number 24), and therefor he should have chosen a different title for his book.

Hi John Y.

The old 43rd is a different story. It was originally Thomas Fowke's regiment, it was raised in 1741 (HQ Winchester, England). It was originally numbered the 54th foot, however, it was renumbered the 43rd in 1748. It wasn't until 1803 that it became a light infantry regiment along with the 52nd and 95th, to become the first corps of light infantry and formed the light brigade at Shorncliffe, Kent, it was round about this time when it was given (the then English county title of Monmouthshire). So the regiment has had an affiliation with the light infantry for many years, and has also never been moved from its native homeland of England. However, the old 24th had won most of its battle honours when it was an English regiment with an English county title, but has since been moved from its homeland of England, and those honours and its glory have been taken from it and have been grabbed by the Welsh, who love to credit and crown themselves with its glory (especially RD), but yet give no (or very little), recognition to its English origins or any recognition to the many, many Englishmen who fought and died fighting under the name it held the longest in its entire history, the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment, and this name of course is almost always ignored and substituted by the swb. If the break up of the UK ever does come about due to others wanting to 'go it alone', then I fear that Wales will have no regiments at all, as the RW is made up of regiments that were all raised in England and are therefor English regiments, ie, 23rd Shropshire, 24th Kent, 41st Chelsea, 69th the old 2nd batt of the 24th, and if memory serves, I think it was raised in Warwickshire.

A case of 'shire and shire alike' eh John?

Perhaps Martin, the printer intended the meaning/title to be 'The South Wales Borderers / 24th Foot'.

I bought this several years ago, cost a hundred quid, measures three foot squared..
really beautiful art nouveau frame, i bought it because i knew there was a
connection to the SWB and through them the old 24th.

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Nice one Les
90th

Thanks Gary, circa 1908..mentally hot day here, just not used to it. xhosa

You could well be right Julian, however, I think a better title would have been 'swb, the phoenix that arose from the ashes of the glorious 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment of foot and stole the thunder'. Or maybe, 'swb, the great pretenders'.

Cmon Les its only 30, not hot yet.

Hey Frank, doing my usual moves earlier..P.O. and the local high st. 3 mile
all round stroll, it nearly did for me!. give me a nice seven degree's with a
touch of sleet..lovely.

Les I hear it got to 35 in London the old day ! , you , my friend , should've been with me in Oman , it was 48 deg with 90% humidity , now that was HOTTTTTTTTT ! . We left the ship and were both back on board within 50 mins , I've never felt so uncomfortable in my life . Currently outside here in Melb the sun is now out the rain clouds are gone and it's a balmy 12 deg at 11.46 am
90th

Hi Gary
Spent time with the Trucial Oman Scouts back in history. Pretty hot travelling around in the Scout cars. got to 52 at one point and as you say you cant function.

33 degrees here yesterday in Essex. At 5.30 this morning it was 29 degrees and it will be giving it to us hotter directly (to borrow a phrase) - not quite Oman but still too hot for me.

Its all a Brexit plot !

Small story totally of topic: Driving a scout car through the desert, temp in the 50s and we suddenly came under fire. Took a few minutes to realise it was the case of Coke strapped to the back exploding. The only living squaddie attacked by a soft drink!

Yes Gary i keep an eye on your weather..12 degree's sounds good to me!

Thank's for sharing that Frank, it does not take much for me to form a mental
picture in my head, that was well funny.. the idea of 40 or even 50 degree's
makes me shudder.

Frank Allewell wrote:

Its all a Brexit plot !

LOL!!!!

Yes Frank, since the wisest people of Britain voted sensibly to leave, and the others who were not so wise (remainiacs) voted to stay, if anything goes awry or things don't seem to be working out, be it here or abroad, it always gets blamed on Brexit, however, the sooner the useless disMay invokes article 50 then the sooner we can get out of the lunatic asylum that is the EU, and good riddance. Coke attack eh! a case of 'pop goes the weasel'.

Hi Les, I have sent you a PM.

This a nice little book, circa 1912.. the text i'm afraid is woeful.
a couple of nice illustration's though.

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Will somebody please identify the above Colonel..the RSM i read as ' Crabtree ' ?. thanks.

Hi xHosa
Do you have a year or just that slip of paper ? , if you have a copy of Hart's Army List you could look through the Officers from that year , if you have the details of when it was written .
90th

Hiya 90th, that's the rub..there is no date, its a dedication
in a book..i have most of the published works on the 24th with
the exception of Atkinson's 1914-1918, iv'e tried breaking down
the name letter by letter but i'm worse than useless. cheers xhosa

Les
I would go with Frederic Philip Smyly transferred from 66th foot 12.4 79 retired 15.6.04
But the illustration showing the South Wales Borderers? expect to get a polite little note from Martin.

Cheers

Colonel F P Smyly in fact.  Bvt. Lieut. Colonel 15th August 1885.
See Atkinson's History of the SWB.
Sorry, Frank, just seen that we overlapped.

As a further aside he was a Major when he retired from the 24th/SWB.

Hope that helps.

Frank, Julian.. thanks so much!. he must have been getting on
when he received the book. I'm in contact with Martin at the
moment re other matters..

Mystery '' possibly '' solved ?
90th

Another one bites the dust.

Yes Smyly is in Atkinson, its his copy of the history, thought i
might get an image of him in Martin's book..no luck.

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Bit embarrassing that the RSM couldn't spell the old Colonel's name! Nice find though.

Steve

I have a little more on his background:

Frederic Philip Smyly is the son of Philip Smyly of Drayton Lodge, Monkstown, County Dublin, Ireland.  He married Charlotte Mary Emily Price, daughter of Sir John Frederick Price and Alice Phillips, in 1885.
Two daughters, Aileen Patrica Eva Mabel Smyly, born 1900 in India and Noreen Violet Franklyn Smyly, born 1905 in England.

He is mentioned in the book Imperial Vancouver Island: Who was Who 1850-1950 by J F Bosher, page 51.

Appointed Sub-Lieutenant 12th July 1875 in 'Antrim Yeomanry' and from being Second-Lieutenant in the 66th Foot, to be Lieutenant, vice W. Sugden, 12th April, 1879 (The Gazette). Smyly arrived in Zululand after the action was over but qualified for a campaign medal.

I also have serving in the Loyal North Lancashire Lieutenant-Colonel Frederic Philip Smyly 08/01/1915 to 28/06/1915 when he was transferred to another active battalion.

He was then Battalion Second in Command to Colonel Courtney Trower (who had also served in the Zulu war) in 5th (Service) Battalion in WW1.

After WW1 Smyly went to Canada and worked for CPR or CNR. Died in Canada (BC) in 1945 - according to Holme.

Thank you Steve, yes that was a bit oo'ps.. on his entry page the opposite
page has an age toned strip outlined, it must be where the page marker
sat for a very long time...

Julian, many thank's for that, i found pretty much the same online. the book
though is the rub, (Imperial Vancouver Island: Who was Who 1850-1950).
there are thirteen copies on Abe ranging in price from £15.00 to £150.00, i
can't justify the outlay for a line or two.

Here is a little more.

At the 1891 census Frederic Philip Smyly is living at St Woollos Newport with his wife Charlotte and two children (Ronald age 3 and Philip age 1). He is Captain and Adjutant 2nd Volunteer Battalion South Wales Borderers. He married Charlotte Price in Madras on 17 October 1885 (she was born in Madras 1864). They had a total of six children, numbers 4&5 were born in Peshawar in 1899 and 1900, the sixth in Croydon in 1905.

30 years before, in 1861, he is living with his family at Spring Grove Villas, Cheltenham, his father, Philip O Smyly is Major General Infantry. His mother Agusta (Dunn) was born in Hobart Tasmania in 1825, they were married in Hobart in 1849, where Frederic's eldest brother John George was born in 1850. In 1891 his brother George (born Tasmania) was Vicar of St John's Penge

A family of Empire!

Steve

Xhosa
Google 'Frederic Philip Smyly' - there is a free on-line version you can read. It is just a one-liner mention of who was hob-nobbing with whom in British Columbia.
Definitely NOT worth buying.
It seems to have been re-published as 'Vancouver Island in the Empire'.

A family of Empire indeed.. thank you both..very kind.

Hi Guys
I was lucky enough to pick up on Ebay ' On Active Service ' by W.W.Lloyd , 1st Edition Published by Chapman & Hall Ltd 1890 . 75 GBP's plus another 20 for Postage . Still a good deal , I've dont think I've ever seen one for sale to be honest
90th

Good pick up Gary. Im afraid my buying days are curtailed until the Rand exchange rate gets a whole lot better. Even the Antiquarian Auction is out of reach.

90th good bargain! See below.

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/Active-Service-Lloyd-W-W-Chapman/928743306/bd


Or Better still!

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=15620460796&searchurl=n%3D100121503%26xpod%3Don%26podrfn%3Don%26bi%3D0+h%26ds%3D30%26podbx%3Don%26bx%3Don%26sortby%3D0%26kn%3D1879+NOT+%28%22print+on+demand%22+OR+%22printed+on+demand%22%29+africa%26recentlyadded%3Dall

90th was this the one.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/401157281608

Well done Gary, a very nice volume.

The edition on ABE (the one in France) posted by Chard is very interesting. It is so expensive because it includes 22 of Lloyd's original watercolours for the book. Still a lot of money but quite unique.

Steve

The French sale has been of and on for some time now.

Nice one 90th, hope your enjoying it, that is the cheapest price iv'e seen
in years.. cheers xhosa

The edition in France ought to be in the museum at Brecon - but out of their price range I imagine.

Steve

Thanks Chard
Yes , that's the one .
Les & Frank
Thanks guys , I'm very happy with it , actually they also had ' Make an offer ' which I did , then thought stuff it , might as well just get it at that price .
Rusteze
I'll sell them mine for 3000 GBP's ! . Or maybe a few trades etc etc !!
90th

So last week i had to give oxfam a rocket for pricing Ratray's
Day of The Dead Moon at £99.00.. i emailed them to inform
them that the price was £50.00 since they were audio tapes
and when they were transferred to cd format the price was
the same, i got a snotty reply in return, so i attacked with
more vigour stressing that they could be had from two outlets,
one here in the uk the other direct from Nicky Ratray in RSH.
i looked before and the price has now been slashed to £27 odd
pounds..any body interested just type in Day of the Dead moon
on their website, i can't stress enough that this is so worth it at
this price, i hope a forum member grabs it..

Well done Xhosa , and yes , it's worth having . I paid 26 Quid for mine , I had two but binned one when I moved because it had a broken case .
90th

Like my last car Gary, windscreen got dirty so it had to go Tsk.

Hi Frank
Yes , it had to go .
90th

Privately published 2004, nice to put on as background.

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Hi Xhosa
I have this set of Rob's cd's , I enjoy them , Rob is a good bloke and excellent company , I enjoy catching up with him at Isandlwana Lodge
90th

Xhosa his book is also having I believe , it's large and heavy , I think its only available at the Lodge and it isn't cheap ! . It's titled ' The People Of The Heavens ' its a hard cover and runs to nearly 390 pages .
Cheers 90th